The Football Thread.

TTony

LionAquaLooper said:

DrCornelius said:

I wonder if Wenger fancies the job ?

But why would he want to improve a team who might end up beating his home country in some tournament down the line?  I know Erikson did it but I wondered that back then as well.  

Professionalism.

Players often play for teams other than those that they support.  Managers often manage clubs other than those that they support.

It's a job, they're paid to do it to the best of their ability no matter who they're competing against.

LionAquaLooper

In that case - Tuchel FTW

TeleMaster

I think we all expected this. I think he's done an amazing job, and really changed the whole team dynamics, atmosphere etc. I'd only say that I wish he performed better against the bigger teams and played more attractive football. His subs were sometimes very late but he also made subs that changed the game when we were losing, so I think that deserves credit.

Thanks Gareth! 

TeleMaster

TTony said:

LionAquaLooper said:

DrCornelius said:

I wonder if Wenger fancies the job ?

But why would he want to improve a team who might end up beating his home country in some tournament down the line?  I know Erikson did it but I wondered that back then as well.  

Professionalism.

Players often play for teams other than those that they support.  Managers often manage clubs other than those that they support.

It's a job, they're paid to do it to the best of their ability no matter who they're competing against.

Yea who's gonna give a manager a job if they don't perform? Their reputation relies on results. 

scrumhalf

I can't see why Howe would want the job at this point in his career.

It pays less, he would get hounded and lambasted by the media and fans whereas now he's lauded, he wouldn't see his players from one game to the next and he would have to do far more media stuff than he does now.

thecolourbox

They could host a lottery type draw to decide who wins the right to be manager for each international break

joneve

scrumhalf said:

I can't see why Howe would want the job at this point in his career.

It pays less, he would get hounded and lambasted by the media and fans whereas now he's lauded, he wouldn't see his players from one game to the next and he would have to do far more media stuff than he does now.

He's previously said that it's the "ultimate job" and that he'd never say no if asked....so you never know. £4.5m a year to work part time isn't too shabby - I'm sure he could just about live off that if he's sensible with his money. 

p90fool

thecolourbox said:

They could host a lottery type draw to decide who wins the right to avoid being England manager

FTFY

TTony

thecolourbox said:

They could host a lottery type draw to decide who wins the right to be manager for each international break

It's a TV show!!

"England's got Managers".  Plenty of us people out there who think they could do a better job, so let's give it a go.  Put it to the  popular vote.  Farage takes a break from politics to enter.   

Philly_Q

^^  "England's got Managers".  That actually works really well as a TV show title. 

Lestratcaster

Right decision for Southgate to step down. I don't think he could do anymore. Time for a new manager to come in and change the style of play to something more attacking and brave. Wenger was my shout as his style when he took over as Arsenal manager was very fluid with loads of goals.

munckee

TTony said:

munckee said:

and lost one final on penalties and another to a goal in the last 5 minutes.  

... although they only made it to the final - to lose in the last 5 minutes - by equalising against the footballing powerhouse of Slovakia in the 96th minute ...


England's team was drawn from the best club sides across Europe, and the squad was the most highly valued (FWIW).  They should be "the best" individual players.  And yet they failed to function effectively, either individually or as a team.  The job of the manager is to take individual parts and make them work as a cohesive whole. 

Southgate failed in that respect.

But it's not only down to him.  Many of the players also looked exhausted.  I don't think the entire blame was the wrong formation, the safety-first approach, or playing them in wrong positions.  They just didn't look like they had the energy.  Kane was lethargic.  Saka got lots of positive comments, but he scored one and made another via a lucky deflection.  Bellingham had one moment of genius/skill (or luck) and a few nice touches, but spent more time looking moody.  Trippier looked completely out of depth. 

Too much football?

Some of the criticism of Southgate and the players is fair, however I think he had earned the right to leave on his own terms with thanks from the public which he largely has. My biggest issue is with the booing and pelting him with stuff, England fans have short memories. 

EricTheWeary

joneve said:

scrumhalf said:

I can't see why Howe would want the job at this point in his career.

It pays less, he would get hounded and lambasted by the media and fans whereas now he's lauded, he wouldn't see his players from one game to the next and he would have to do far more media stuff than he does now.

He's previously said that it's the "ultimate job" and that he'd never say no if asked....so you never know. £4.5m a year to work part time isn't too shabby - I'm sure he could just about live off that if he's sensible with his money. 

What surprised me the other day was something said about Southgate that he treated it as a full time job whereas it had never really occurred to me that it wasn't a full time job (I know there are big gaps between matches compared to club teams but there must be stuff to do). Klopp was quite vocal about his teams having to play too many matches so perhaps he'd be a good choice for England. 

scrumhalf

Jimmy Anderson - can he excel in another sport?

joneve

I think Carsley would be worth a look - he did a great job with the U21's last year - likes to play attacking football and is familiar with much of the young squad already. 

Rocker

Lestratcaster said:

Right decision for Southgate to step down.  Time for a new manager to come in and change the style of play to something more attacking and brave.

I don't think it is simply a question of changing the style of play......

International football has changed how the game itself is played.  This has happened in the past twenty years or so.  Looking at the Euro games and ignoring the ball, the way the players are setup has changed.

No team can afford the luxury of a 'big man' upfront any more.  Kane, Giroud, Muller etc., all big men but they got few chances and even fewer goals from open play in the tournament.  That tactic simply doesn't work today.  It all comes down to a few simple changes in team setup and how players are positioned on the field of play.

As I see it, and I am not a football coach, winning teams are setup with six defenders/midfielders [including the keeper] and five midfielders/forwards.  Each group works as a unit, if the midfielders/forwards move towards the opposition goal area, the defenders/midfielders move to cover the area around the half way line.  And vice versa.  The keeper is a floating sweeper as is usually the case.  For this system to work, the players have got to understand that they are members of a team.  And not individuals who happen to wear the same coloured shirts.  In the recent Euros tournament, a great number of goals were not scored simply because the players in possession wanted to be the hero, the one who scored the spectacular goal, whereas in reality a simple pass to a better positioned teammate would have guaranteed a score.  Every player must be willing to 'play in' a team mate and also be available to be 'played in'.  Does it really matter who kicks the ball into the goal?  Football is a team game, the team wins or the team loses.

Another very disappointing observation was the very small number of goals scored from direct free kicks from areas around the 'box' and the poor quality of most of the 'crosses' into the goal area.  Have players forgotten how to bend a free kick around or over the 'wall'?  Golfers, amateur and professional, practice tricky shots in case such shots are ever needed during a round.  It is an absolute certainty that a team will get a number of free kicks from a few metres outside the box.  Professional footballers should be capable of hitting the target at least.  In that case the keeper has to save it or it is a goal.  Ballooning the ball over the bar and into the crowd is a wasted scoring opportunity.

In Rugby football, the substitute 'bench' is emptied at around the second third in the game.  Soccer could learn from this practice.  There is little point in introducing a player at the eighty eighth minute.  Two minutes plus stoppage time is not enough for the substitute to have an opportunity to do something meaningful for the team. 

As I said above, I don't think it is simply a question of changing the style of play......

sev112

You say there is no need for a tall striker any more, but then bemoan that wingers can’t cross the ball - why should they if there is no need for a big man?

I think Man City have struggled (too many tight games and being behind when it matters) by having Sergio Ageuro and getting rid of Edin Dzeko.  Defenders know that all you are going to do is play ticky-tacky football and be read6 for it.  When Djeko was playing defenders didn’t know what was coming next. You have to give the defenders doubt which creates the milliseconds from which chances come,

I agree that free kicks this year were rubbish across the board,

My biggest grief this year with England was how “nice” all the attackers were, always trying to pass the ball to some other superstar. When I would have liked some selfishness from them to go it alone much of the time

TTony

Rocker said:

International football has changed how the game itself is played.  This has happened in the past twenty years or so.  Looking at the Euro games and ignoring the ball, the way the players are setup has changed.

No team can afford the luxury of a 'big man' upfront any more.  Kane, Giroud, Muller etc., 

That's "the past twenty years" in which Kane became England's all-time #1 goalscorer?

Ditto Lukaku (and the big man doesn't come much bigger than him) for Belgium?

guitars4you

TTony said:

Rocker said:

International football has changed how the game itself is played.  This has happened in the past twenty years or so.  Looking at the Euro games and ignoring the ball, the way the players are setup has changed.

No team can afford the luxury of a 'big man' upfront any more.  Kane, Giroud, Muller etc., 

That's "the past twenty years" in which Kane became England's all-time #1 goalscorer?

Ditto Lukaku (and the big man doesn't come much bigger than him) for Belgium?

I wonder how long it will be before we see a kind of 4-4-2 again - Kane can still do a good job for England if he had a 'Rooney' esq player hanging around/off him - Be that Watkins, Foden, Bellingham - Don't think he can lead the line again, based on recent games a WC 2 years away in a warm climate 

UnclePsychosis

TTony said:

Rocker said:

International football has changed how the game itself is played.  This has happened in the past twenty years or so.  Looking at the Euro games and ignoring the ball, the way the players are setup has changed.

No team can afford the luxury of a 'big man' upfront any more.  Kane, Giroud, Muller etc., 

That's "the past twenty years" in which Kane became England's all-time #1 goalscorer?

Ditto Lukaku (and the big man doesn't come much bigger than him) for Belgium?

As much as I disagree with a lot of Rockers post, this is actually an interesting point in there. Number 9s don't really fit into the way the top teams play now. It's part of the reason Kane contributed fuck all at this tournament, the team wasn't set up to play with a number 9. 

Stolen from elsewhere - if you take the frontmen from each of the four semi finalists at this tournament you have Yamal, Morata, Williams; Mbappé, Griezmann, Muari; Malen, Depay, Gakpo; Bellingham, Kane, Foden. 

Out of the 12, there are only two out and out strikers (Kane and Morata).