Star Wars: Obi Wan Kenobi.

VimFuego

Personally I think it's entirely possible to both enjoy a show/film and to rip seven shades of piss out of it for its glaring plot holes. In fact, ripping aforementioned piss out of it enhances the enjoyment. 

TeleMaster

VimFuego said:

Personally I think it's entirely possible to both enjoy a show/film and to rip seven shades of piss out of it for its glaring plot holes. In fact, ripping aforementioned piss out of it enhances the enjoyment. 

Yea you're right. I just feel like I'm betraying it. As you may have experienced earlier in the thread, even if my tone wasn't meant in the way it may have come across, I can become slightly defensive about star wars and I'm not sure if I can admit to myself that maybe it's not as good as I want it to be.

darthed1981

That's the point though isn't it.

IMHO, and in terms of movie history, the OT is critically and commercially one of the high points of the whole history of movies.

It was lightning in a bottle, and it's totally impossible to replicate that.

The irony of it is, the film that most realised that and went off in a wildly different direction, Last Jedi, had such a massive backlash from a large section of the fan base they played it safe again for TROS.

So they really can't win.

ICBM

darthed1981 said:

The irony of it is, the film that most realised that and went off in a wildly different direction, Last Jedi, had such a massive backlash from a large section of the fan base they played it safe again for TROS.

Completely agree.

And worse, by doing that they didn't make Duel Of The Fates, which would have been a genuinely great ending to the whole series.

VimFuego

TeleMaster said:

VimFuego said:

Personally I think it's entirely possible to both enjoy a show/film and to rip seven shades of piss out of it for its glaring plot holes. In fact, ripping aforementioned piss out of it enhances the enjoyment. 

Yea you're right. I just feel like I'm betraying it. As you may have experienced earlier in the thread, even if my tone wasn't meant in the way it may have come across, I can become slightly defensive about star wars and I'm not sure if I can admit to myself that maybe it's not as good as I want it to be.

I think the problem with being a sci fi/fantasy fan is it's not just something we enjoy, it's a major part of our lives. We read the books and comics, we attend conventions, we play video games, we write fan fiction and we spend a lot of time dreaming about it (although that possibly may just me who lives in a fantasy land). And I would argue that the average sci fi fan is both smarter than average and more creative. I can't imagine any other genre that has such a high value fan base, nor one that is so difficult to please, so nothing they can produce is ever going to be as good as we want it to be, we've lived our whole lives imagining how good this could be. So we take the piss, and queue up all night to watch the 1st showing, it's our DNA.

horse

TeleMaster said:

When I think about it even harder, the prequels were actually aimed more at adults with all the politiking and trade stuff, the knife and dagger senate stuff, and people still disliked it at the time. 

 I didn't enjoy them at the time, but rewatched them recently and they were better than I had remembered. I think I just wanted more familiarity / nostalgia at the time.

UnclePsychosis

horse said:

TeleMaster said:

When I think about it even harder, the prequels were actually aimed more at adults with all the politiking and trade stuff, the knife and dagger senate stuff, and people still disliked it at the time. 

 I didn't enjoy them at the time, but rewatched them recently and they were better than I had remembered. 

Wait, what? You guys are just trolling me now ffs. :-D

TeleMaster

UnclePsychosis said:

horse said:

TeleMaster said:

When I think about it even harder, the prequels were actually aimed more at adults with all the politiking and trade stuff, the knife and dagger senate stuff, and people still disliked it at the time. 

 I didn't enjoy them at the time, but rewatched them recently and they were better than I had remembered. 

Wait, what? You guys are just trolling me now ffs. :-D

I really don't think they're as bad as people make out. Jar Jar and the Gungans are awful, and it suffered from an overcomplicated narrative, but honestly, watch them again. The fights are great, Dooku, Mace Windu, Yoda, Qui Gon, Obi Wan, Darth Maul are great. And once you know what the hell is going on, it makes sense and is quite epic. I think it was aimed at people who wanted something different but with time, a lot of people realised that it's not as bad as they thought at the time. 

VimFuego

There were the kernels of some great films in there (although I still think Phantom was just poor, it was just a sequence of loosely connected scenes with a thin veneer of narrative), but I think Haydn Pantierre (or whatever his name was) was not a strong enough actor to pull off such a complex character as Darth Vader. Instead of a young jedi being pulled to the dark side, we got what was basically a massive great teenage tantrum on steroids (wah wah wah, they won't let me be a jedi etc). 

LastMantra

stickyfiddle said:

Just caught up with e3 last night. I thought it was fantastic. 

I don't care what others think of it, but I can't help feeling some people dislike so much more of Star Wars than the bits they do like - maybe they just don't like Star Wars..?

On the other hand, it seems to me that some fans will watch any old tripe if it's got the star wars name on it.

TeleMaster

VimFuego said:

There were the kernels of some great films in there (although I still think Phantom was just poor, it was just a sequence of loosely connected scenes with a thin veneer of narrative), but I think Haydn Pantierre (or whatever his name was) was not a strong enough actor to pull off such a complex character as Darth Vader. Instead of a young jedi being pulled to the dark side, we got what was basically a massive great teenage tantrum on steroids (wah wah wah, they won't let me be a jedi etc). 

Was it him or was it the writing/direction? Or both? 

VimFuego

TeleMaster said:

VimFuego said:

There were the kernels of some great films in there (although I still think Phantom was just poor, it was just a sequence of loosely connected scenes with a thin veneer of narrative), but I think Haydn Pantierre (or whatever his name was) was not a strong enough actor to pull off such a complex character as Darth Vader. Instead of a young jedi being pulled to the dark side, we got what was basically a massive great teenage tantrum on steroids (wah wah wah, they won't let me be a jedi etc). 

Was it him or was it the writing/direction? Or both? 

probably both, though from what I've seen of him, he's not a great actor. He's good, but not good enough to make that role convincing. But as you say, the writing and direction did him no favours. 

Axe_meister

I love star wars. But what sets the originals apart (especially a new hope) is they had to make sure the dialog and interaction of the characters were on point as the the special effects were so expensive, alas that felt a bit of an afterthought in the prequals.
I'm really liking Obi-Wan, except the pacing of the 3rd. Vader, red light Sabre and heavy breathing should really have been the climatic cliff hanger.

sev112

The massive cost of the new films is the technology,  I don’t think that necessarily gets you plot free  problems

LastMantra

There's a whole heap of nostalgia with the originals. I mean I loved the toys and kidding on I was in the things way back then! I kind of wish I didn't watch a new hope recently. I saw some of the original toys somewhere recently too and they looked really crap, I thought they were amazing at the time! I like the sequels, they look good, much better than the originals look now, and the stories are decent. I honestly don't know what they were thinking with the prequels.

TeleMaster

LastMantra said:

There's a whole heap of nostalgia with the originals. I mean I loved the toys and kidding on I was in the things way back then! I kind of wish I didn't watch a new hope recently. I saw some of the original toys somewhere recently too and they looked really crap, I thought they were amazing at the time! I like the sequels, they look good, much better than the originals look now, and the stories are decent. I honestly don't know what they were thinking with the prequels.

It's funny because I'm like the opposite. I really think that the prequels were at least coherent and planned out and and had a lot of cool characters and fights, but the sequels seemed to start strong and then just fart out star wars stuff in a way that made me go omg wtf and then later go um omg what the actual fuck?  

LastMantra

TeleMaster said:

LastMantra said:

There's a whole heap of nostalgia with the originals. I mean I loved the toys and kidding on I was in the things way back then! I kind of wish I didn't watch a new hope recently. I saw some of the original toys somewhere recently too and they looked really crap, I thought they were amazing at the time! I like the sequels, they look good, much better than the originals look now, and the stories are decent. I honestly don't know what they were thinking with the prequels.

It's funny because I'm like the opposite. I really think that the prequels were at least coherent and planned out and and had a lot of cool characters and fights, but the sequels seemed to start strong and then just fart out star wars stuff in a way that made me go omg wtf and then later go um omg what the actual fuck?  

I don't think the prequels were terrible movies really but they just felt like different things. There were some good fight scenes, for example, but they were made in a rather different style imo. Which I didn't like so much. Maybe they were meant to be like that, I don't know enough about the original story. I didn't like EM or some characters or all the senate stuff or the droids or the racing stuff.....etc. I might like them more if I try again. 

Probably some fans are looking for different things though. I do try to judge them as individual movies (or programmes) some people don't seem able or willing to do that and it's more about the time line and how they all fit together. Or maybe something else.

For example, if the Mandalorian was called "shiny armour space hero and muppet child" or something and didn't have a star wars connection I don't think it would have been so popular.
Maybe I'm wrong? 

I remember seeing an electric razor in a shop that was a special star wars edition. Only difference seemed to be that it had stormtroopers on the box. Someone must buy these things 

guitargeek62

ICBM said:

darthed1981 said:

The irony of it is, the film that most realised that and went off in a wildly different direction, Last Jedi, had such a massive backlash from a large section of the fan base they played it safe again for TROS.

Completely agree.

And worse, by doing that they didn't make Duel Of The Fates, which would have been a genuinely great ending to the whole series.

Here you go:

https://www.awinegarner.com/duel-of-the-fates

ICBM

guitargeek62 said:

Here you go:

https://www.awinegarner.com/duel-of-the-fates

Interesting, but I preferred reading the script a few times until I could picture the finished film.

It's an absolute travesty that it wasn't made - even with the difficulty of Carrie Fisher being in it, there would have been ways around that I think - her part wasn't huge.

If anyone who wants to hasn't found it yet, it's here...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xeO1V2T_abmbKSdDWe7nivLM4OOKnEWG/view

Kultschar

Enjoying this over Mediocre Boba.   But Vader was prevented capturing Obi-Wan by a little bit of fire he puffed out seconds earlier with the Force.    Flames were prob 10m wide if most haha