The F1 thread

Garthy

Heartfeltdawn said:

And that is why Bottas has a contract for next year. Clearly unhappy with the decision but professional enough to take it. 

Though the same situation in Germany didn’t secure Räikkönen a renewal.

Heartfeltdawn

Garthy said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

And that is why Bottas has a contract for next year. Clearly unhappy with the decision but professional enough to take it. 

Though the same situation in Germany didn’t secure Räikkönen a renewal.

No it didn't. But I'm not talking about Ferrari's situation. I'm talking about Ocon and Bottas and why the former has no seat thus far. Bottas hasn't had great luck this season and a win would have been a good confidence boost. To give that up and to follow orders shows what sort of guy he is. 

Kimi not being renewed: one race win given away can't make up for some underachivement in the last few years. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Garthy said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

And that is why Bottas has a contract for next year. Clearly unhappy with the decision but professional enough to take it. 

Though the same situation in Germany didn’t secure Räikkönen a renewal.

No it didn't. But I'm not talking about Ferrari's situation. I'm talking about Ocon and Bottas and why the former has no seat thus far. Bottas hasn't had great luck this season and a win would have been a good confidence boost. To give that up and to follow orders shows what sort of guy he is. 

Kimi not being renewed: one race win given away can't make up for some underachivement in the last few years. 

Great race .. Vestappen was driver of the day. Bottas couldn't push went it counted which is why he was asked to move over. It is a team sport. Vettel looks a beaten man - I'm sure Mercedes can engineer a Bottas win before the end of the season.

thumpingrug

Totally agree.  Feel for Bottas but he accepted that it was in the teams interest and I also believe that once Hamilton has secured the championship, which he surly will, Bottas will win a race.   Vestappen's charge from the back in those first few laps was something to behold.

Cols

Hats off to Max, he certainly earned his pocket money this weekend.  He was driving past cars like they weren’t there.

Strange that the second set of tyres didn’t work for him.  I was expecting him to swiftly hunt down and devour Kimi.

Electro_Ham

I understand what Mercedes did with letting Hamilton take first. It was the safe thing to do. But, if Mercedes really wanted to, they could have shown an arrogance that would have hammered down the final nail in Ferrari's coffin this year.

By letting Lewis take first...Mercedes acknowledge Ferrari to be a fierce competitor. If they really wanted to deflate Ferrari (as they did with the 2 car, side-by-side outlap in Monza, they could have let Bottas take the flag.

thumpingrug

Electro_Ham said:

I understand what Mercedes did with letting Hamilton take first. It was the safe thing to do. But, if Mercedes really wanted to, they could have shown an arrogance that would have hammered down the final nail in Ferrari's coffin this year.

By letting Lewis take first...Mercedes acknowledge Ferrari to be a fierce competitor. If they really wanted to deflate Ferrari (as they did with the 2 car, side-by-side outlap in Monza, they could have let Bottas take the flag.

I do hear what your saying and whilst I agree with the sentiment, what happens if Lewis has an engine failure at the next race or gets punted off the track at the next one.  Vettel would be back in it and Mercedes could be regretting ensuring a dafe win.  Bottas will get his win but only once the championship is secured.

Fretwired

thumpingrug said:

Electro_Ham said:

I understand what Mercedes did with letting Hamilton take first. It was the safe thing to do. But, if Mercedes really wanted to, they could have shown an arrogance that would have hammered down the final nail in Ferrari's coffin this year.

By letting Lewis take first...Mercedes acknowledge Ferrari to be a fierce competitor. If they really wanted to deflate Ferrari (as they did with the 2 car, side-by-side outlap in Monza, they could have let Bottas take the flag.

I do hear what your saying and whilst I agree with the sentiment, what happens if Lewis has an engine failure at the next race or gets punted off the track at the next one.  Vettel would be back in it and Mercedes could be regretting ensuring a dafe win.  Bottas will get his win but only once the championship is secured.

Agree .. there are some tracks coming up where Red Bull will be in the mix and Mercedes are unlikely to win .. remember Hamilton and Rosberg .. two DNFs and the championship slipped away.

TimmyO

I missed the live coverage and only saw the C4 highlights - how much chat was there re Seb's block on Lewis - fair/borderline or lucky not to be finger-wagged by stewards? 

Cols

He moved across the track under braking, but it was always in one direction.  For me it was at the limit of what the regulations permit, and not really in the spirit of things.

Fretwired

Cols said:

He moved across the track under braking, but it was always in one direction.  For me it was at the limit of what the regulations permit, and not really in the spirit of things.

It was two movements though ... had he collected Hamilton I think action would have been taken. I think the fact Hamilton passed him, which setup a gripping on track contest until the swap, a little further up the road contributed to the decision not to punish Vettel. The fans would have rightly said it robbed them of the chance to see the championship leaders race each other. The fans were robbed a little later when Wolff made the decision to swap Bottas and Hamilton. I can now see after Rosberg why Wolff was keen to get Bottas and why he recently called him a good wingman. Team orders should be banned IMHO.

stickyfiddle

Completely impossible to ban team orders unless you ban teams. 

As much as I'd rather see Vettel hounding Hamilton for 20 laps I'm 100% onboard with Toto's "I'd rather be the bad guy than an idiot" 

LeClerc was the star for me. With Merc keeping the HamBot combo I can see them walking both championships next year as LeClerc will give Vettel a much harder time than Kimi has of late. 

TimmyO

stickyfiddle said:

Completely impossible to ban team orders unless you ban teams. 

Exactly that. 

Fretwired

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

And un-banned because Ferrari kept using them

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

And un-banned because Ferrari kept using them

Because the penalties were not a deterrent.

Remember 2012 US Grand Prix? Ferrari broke the seal on Massa's gearbox so he got a five-place grid penalty which promoted Alsono up the grid and onto the side of the track with the most grip. Ruthless bastards .. :-)

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

He moved across the track under braking, but it was always in one direction.  For me it was at the limit of what the regulations permit, and not really in the spirit of things.

It was two movements though ... had he collected Hamilton I think action would have been taken. 

More than one move, but both in the same direction... which was where I think he got away with it.  Agreed that if there had been an accident (or it wasn’t a championship battle) there might have been a different call from the stewards.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

I don't know how you can include 'successfully' in that sentence with a straight face 

Deterrence was indeed an issue, but moreso is proof, and the definition of orders, and the grey area of influencing a different team to give their own driver a legal instruction that impacts your (or another team's) race. 

Teams exist, and team orders exist. 

siremoon

Fretwired said:

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

"Fernando is faster than you………Can you confirm you understood that message?”

Cols

siremoon said:

Fretwired said:

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

"Fernando is faster than you………Can you confirm you understood that message?”

For which they were fined $100k for taking the piss.