The F1 thread

TimmyO

Cols said:

siremoon said:

Fretwired said:

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

"Fernando is faster than you………Can you confirm you understood that message?”

For which they were fined $100k for taking the piss.

An inconsequential amount of money and a small investment to make to learn where the line was 

Cols

TimmyO said:

Cols said:

siremoon said:

Fretwired said:

Team orders were successfully banned for a while.

"Fernando is faster than you………Can you confirm you understood that message?”

For which they were fined $100k for taking the piss.

An inconsequential amount of money and a small investment to make to learn where the line was 

They probably made the money back through ‘Fernando is faster than you’ t-shirt sales.

sweepy

And Renault were also carpeted for asking Piquet to
Crash, allowing Alonso to win 

Fretwired

Looks like quali could be due a shake-up - 4 sessions instead of three. The final session would have 8 cars. The aim is to make it difficult for the top teams to get into Q1 without using the faster tyres so they are forced to pit early. Teams outside the top 8 can choose what they like.

thumpingrug

Fretwired said:

Looks like quali could be due a shake-up - 4 sessions instead of three. The final session would have 8 cars. The aim is to make it difficult for the top teams to get into Q1 without using the faster tyres so they are forced to pit early. Teams outside the top 8 can choose what they like.

Sounds interesting but would be better if it was top 5 or 7.  Making it an odd number will spilt at least one team making for very different strategies.  

Garthy

Sounds like dogshit.

Cols

More bloody strategies.  Sorry to say, but the old approach of 12 laps max on sticky qualifiers was the best one I’ve seen.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Sounds like dogshit.

Not sure .. it could work.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139075/f1-could-get-new-qualifying-format-for-2019

TimmyO

It's the grid penalties that (occasionally) kill off the current format.

The cost-saving rule changes almost always bring this sort of unintended consequence that impacts the overall show. 

I wonder if the penalties were points (or fractions thereof) it might still dissuade overuse of new components but not impact the entertainment of the current race weekend ? 

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

More bloody strategies.  Sorry to say, but the old approach of 12 laps max on sticky qualifiers was the best one I’ve seen.

45 minutes of backmarkers and only 15 of the quick guys? Screw that. 

Whaf at we have now is fundamentally great, it’s the penalties that fuck it over. Anything “engine” should be penalised through constructor points, not grid slots.

Cols

Well, with the current system by the last 15 minutes you already have a pretty bloody good idea of how things are going to shake out.  So, not much in the way of unpredictability or last-minute excitement.

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the current qualifying system though.  I get the feeling that they’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist, rather than tackling the crunchier one of why it’s no longer possible for any team outside the three big spenders to bag a decent grid slot on merit.

Nitefly

Start each race in reverse order of previous race finish, so last race winner starts at the back, etc.  First race of the season, just draw lots.

Simples!

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

It's the grid penalties that (occasionally) kill off the current format.

The cost-saving rule changes almost always bring this sort of unintended consequence that impacts the overall show. 

I wonder if the penalties were points (or fractions thereof) it might still dissuade overuse of new components but not impact the entertainment of the current race weekend ? 

I guess points could be awarded for taking part - make it worthwhile for teams with penalties.

Cols

I think the current incentive for taking part in qualifying  is the 107% rule; any car not setting a time within 107% of the fastest car cannot start the race unless the race stewards agree to grant an exemption.  I don’t think they’d accept “Didn’t see the point, tbh” as a valid excuse.

Cols

Nitefly said:

Start each race in reverse order of previous race finish, so last race winner starts at the back, etc.  First race of the season, just draw lots.

Simples!

I’d be worried that it’s a slippery slope from that to success ballast.  F1 should, above all, be a meritocracy - doing a good job shouldn’t be penalised.

On top of that, I can already envisage the unedifying spectacle of all the cars running from 11th and lower engaging in a race to the bottom after the last pit stop in order to secure a good grid slot for the next race.

Fretwired

Cols said:

I think the current incentive for taking part in qualifying  is the 107% rule; any car not setting a time within 107% of the fastest car cannot start the race unless the race stewards agree to grant an exemption.  I don’t think they’d accept “Didn’t see the point, tbh” as a valid excuse.

But you can do that in Q3. The last race saw just 10 cars in Q2 so they all went through. With five drivers facing massive grid drops in due to engine changes, the three making it into Q2 – Daniel Ricciardo, Max Verstappen and Pierre Gasly – all opted not to run.

That resulted in Renault making the same call as their drivers would start at worst P12 and they’d have free tyre choice for the race. You could really spice things up with a points system - make teams race aggressively in Quali.

Cols

It was more related to the above idea of giving points for taking part in qualifying.  Everyone already needs to take part and set a competitive time unless they’ve put their car in practice.

Points for qualifying is an interesting idea; IMO it would need to be kept to a low level to avoid devaluing the race.  Additionally, the top teams will (on balance) always qualify well, so it’s a double bonus for them.

Best approach would be to ditch the engine and gearbox penalties and therefore grid penalties.  I’m extremely doubtful that this regulation results in any significant cost saving.

Heartfeltdawn

Points for qualifying sound like fun. 

I would apply it to the Constructors Championship. Two ideas are bouncing around my head. 

Let's say that points are achieved for the fastest team time set by either driver. So if Mercedes are 1 and 2, Driver 1's time means Mercedes gets 25 CC points. Ferrari are 3 and 5 so get 2nd place points. Red Bull 4 and 6 so get 3rd place points. The fun lower down the grid might come with teams who know they're going to be arse in the main race so go with a setup for qualifying that boosts up their CC points and then they hope that the race might just go their way. 

It would be a bit fiddly though so I'm liking idea 2 more and it's ripping off the Blancpain GT method for the longer races. In events where a car is driven by three drivers in the race, they have three qualifying sessions and use an aggregate of the driver's times. In F1 you could do the same. The team with the best aggregate gets 25 points, team with 2nd best gets 18 points and so on. 

If a driver crashes out before setting a time or has a mechanical issue and sets no time, then you simply use the other driver's time multiplied by 1.25. If both fail to set a time then they get laughed at it in the paddock and Johnny Herbert gets to go up to them and say "Boys, that was shit".

eg. Hamilton drives a 1:20 lap. Bottas crashes before he sets a time and his time is recorded as 1:40, thus giving an aggregate Mercedes time of 1:30. Bottas then starts at the back of the grid by virtue of not setting a time.  

What about the wretched engine and part change penalties? I hate them because drivers are penalised for elements out of their control. It's truly shite. So here I reckon you could use the same 1.25 multiplier.  

Let's use Hamilton and Bottas again. Hammy gets his 1:20 lap and qualifies 1st. Bottas has a gearbox change and sets a 1:20 as well to finish second fastest.

Because Bottas had a parts change, he is treated as if he crashed and so the overall aggregate time is 1.20 + 1.40 = 1.30. Mercedes are effectively punished for the parts change as a team by having a reduced number of CC points from this session. 

The actual time that Bottas set is treated as his qualifying time so he qualifies second rather than being punished with grid place penalties. 

Obviously this is a rough idea but I think it could be worked out quite well. It'd push both the individual performance aspect and the team aspect. 

Fretwired

Japan practice 1 and 2 .... Hamilton's in a different league from the rest including his team mate. Vettel doesn't look a happy man ..

Heartfeltdawn

Hamy really does look imperious at the minute.