The F1 thread

TimmyO

Modellista said:

They've consistently been leaving Hamilton out for too long on worn tyres all season.  I really cannot fathom why.  As soon as that gap starts dropping they should bring him in.  I've lost count of the times I'm shouting "bring him in!" at the TV, all the while those valuable seconds vanish into thin air.

You've been wrong lots of times then :-) 

It's as much about the relative tyre age when you catch the other guy - if he'd stormed up to the back of Max while Max's tyres were even fresher than when he did, he'd have hd even less Chance of passing. As it was Max's tyre preservation was outstanding 

TimmyO

Merc's less Than perfect strategy was mostly first half of the season, after which Ferrari started being the dodgy ones. 

Garthy

TimmyO said:

Modellista said:

They've consistently been leaving Hamilton out for too long on worn tyres all season.  I really cannot fathom why.  As soon as that gap starts dropping they should bring him in.  I've lost count of the times I'm shouting "bring him in!" at the TV, all the while those valuable seconds vanish into thin air.

You've been wrong lots of times then :-) 

It's as much about the relative tyre age when you catch the other guy - if he'd stormed up to the back of Max while Max's tyres were even fresher than when he did, he'd have hd even less Chance of passing. As it was Max's tyre preservation was outstanding 

Had he pitted when the entire fucking world thought he should then LH would have excited the pits with Max on his gearbox but not infront.

Fretwired

Why is there an F1 race in Mexico? That was a yawn fest ... crappy tyres and car management. Bottas was lapped ... Hamilton looked like he was out for an afternoon drive ... he finished a minuted behind the winner.

Well done to Hamilton for winning the championship but the FIA need to look at F1 ... it's becoming a joke.

thumpingrug

Have to agree with @Fretwired the last 10 laps looked like they have all slowed to about half speed.  For tyres not to last more that 8-9 laps is shocking.   Pleased for Hamilton that he's won the Championship, he deserved it for the work he has done earlier in the season, but not for this race.  Great to see Max winning and you have to feel for Daniel Ric for yet another failure.  

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Why is there an F1 race in Mexico? That was a yawn fest ... crappy tyres and car management. Bottas was lapped ... Hamilton looked like he was out for an afternoon drive ... he finished a minuted behind the winner.

Well done to Hamilton for winning the championship but the FIA need to look at F1 ... it's becoming a joke.

You can’t expect 21 humdingers per season. It’s been an amazing season.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Why is there an F1 race in Mexico? That was a yawn fest ... crappy tyres and car management. Bottas was lapped ... Hamilton looked like he was out for an afternoon drive ... he finished a minuted behind the winner.

Well done to Hamilton for winning the championship but the FIA need to look at F1 ... it's becoming a joke.

You can’t expect 21 humdingers per season. It’s been an amazing season.

If I'd paid to go and watch that I'd want my money back .. it was seriously poor. I don't give a stuff about the rest of the season. Each race needs to deliver some excitement. The problem was the tyres .. too fragile.  Bottas was lapped ... Hamilton was cruising ..

Garthy

Not one of the 69 seasons has had fantastic races for the entire season through out, your expectations cannot be satisfied.

GuyR

Hamilton is great, possibly one of the best ever, but the greatest was Fangio. He didn't start a F1 race until a month before his 39th birthday, and still won 5 titles.

stickyfiddle

GuyR said:

Hamilton is great, possibly one of the best ever, but the greatest was Fangio. He didn't start a F1 race until a month before his 39th birthday, and still won 5 titles.

Obviously he was great, but any comparison is moot. Fangio couldn't do what the likes of Hamilton and Schumacher have, and they couldn't do what he did either.

boogieman

Was the track made of broken glass and sandpaper? Jeez, the state of those tyres!!

Well done Lewis, hard luck Danny Ric. I hope he’s made the right decision moving over to Renault and the engine problems don’t follow him there. 

Fretwired

Many of the teams are unhappy at racing in Mexico with hybrid cars - the turbo is working overtime and the heat screwed the tyres. You could see Hamilton and Bottas were saving their engines for the last two races as the constructors championship is still up for grabs.

TimmyO

How about we give the perpetual whiners their own F1-whining thread? 

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

How about we give the perpetual whiners their own F1-whining thread? 

In the case of Mexico I think they have a point. Max had his engine turned down but Vettel couldn't catch him as his tyres were on the way out. Not a great place to race - heat and high altitude.

stickyfiddle

The problem isn't Mexico, it's cheese tyres and shit engine regs. 

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

The problem isn't Mexico, it's cheese tyres and shit engine regs. 

Agreed but its too late to change those. Scratch Mexico and go somewhere else.

GuyR

stickyfiddle said:

GuyR said:

Hamilton is great, possibly one of the best ever, but the greatest was Fangio. He didn't start a F1 race until a month before his 39th birthday, and still won 5 titles.

Obviously he was great, but any comparison is moot. Fangio couldn't do what the likes of Hamilton and Schumacher have, and they couldn't do what he did either.

You are quite right, of course, just got irritated listening to radio 5 this morning banging on about LH being the best ever. The real question is what the hell was I doing listening to radio 5? Must get a grip.

sinbaadi

stickyfiddle said:

GuyR said:

Hamilton is great, possibly one of the best ever, but the greatest was Fangio. He didn't start a F1 race until a month before his 39th birthday, and still won 5 titles.

Obviously he was great, but any comparison is moot. Fangio couldn't do what the likes of Hamilton and Schumacher have, and they couldn't do what he did either.

I think it's more likely that in fair comparisons Hamilton is better in the Fangio era than Fangio is in the Hamilton era.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

How about we give the perpetual whiners their own F1-whining thread? 

In the case of Mexico I think they have a point. Max had his engine turned down but Vettel couldn't catch him as his tyres were on the way out. Not a great place to race - heat and high altitude.

lol @ "they" :-) 

Modellista

Garthy said:

TimmyO said:

Modellista said:

They've consistently been leaving Hamilton out for too long on worn tyres all season.  I really cannot fathom why.  As soon as that gap starts dropping they should bring him in.  I've lost count of the times I'm shouting "bring him in!" at the TV, all the while those valuable seconds vanish into thin air.

You've been wrong lots of times then :-) 

It's as much about the relative tyre age when you catch the other guy - if he'd stormed up to the back of Max while Max's tyres were even fresher than when he did, he'd have hd even less Chance of passing. As it was Max's tyre preservation was outstanding 

Had he pitted when the entire fucking world thought he should then LH would have excited the pits with Max on his gearbox but not infront.

Thank you Garthy, at least there's someone on my wavelength.  Perhaps a graph will make it easier to understand for the others.


Lewis assumes the lead on lap 22 when Raikkonen pits.  He maintains a gap of 18 seconds to Raikkonen until lap 30, when his tyres start to go off.

What the team do is cause him to lose 10 of his 18 second lead by leaving him out on increasingly worn tyres.  The only reason for this is the presumed advantage of fresher tyres at the end of the race.  However as he pits he is passed by Verstappen and the useless Bottas as well as Raikkonen and uses up all his tyre advantage making up those 10 lost seconds to the lead pair, by which time, as we saw, there is no advantage left and he cannot pass Verstappen, let alone Raikkonen.

If, as I suggest, they had brought Hamilton in *immediately* his tyres show the first signs of deg on lap 30, he would have been on the tail of Raikkonen when he left the pits, and Verstappen would have still been behind him.  And on 16 laps fresher tyres he would have had a fighting chance of passing Raikkonen for the win.

Pretty self-explanatory.