The F1 thread

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

How about we give the perpetual whiners their own F1-whining thread? 

In the case of Mexico I think they have a point. Max had his engine turned down but Vettel couldn't catch him as his tyres were on the way out. Not a great place to race - heat and high altitude.

lol @ "they" :-) 

Yep .. long thread but there are plenty of other forumites who think F1 offers poor entertainment .. but you're obviously easily pleased with a sport in which only three teams have won a Grand Prix in 2018. Pop over to the Times and read about the falling TV ratings around the world. Lots of interesting comments from old guys like me who watched the likes of Senna, Piquet, Prost, Mansell, Lauda, Hunt .. it was more interesting. The cars were a handful and less reliable .. Rosberg was champion in '82 by winning one race - that's how competitive it was .. these days it's Lewis/Seb or one of the Red Bull guys and as a one-off Kimi. Just three teams .. the gulf to the rest is enormous.

TimmyO

I've been watching since I was 6 - so 40 years. 

F1 isn't just about the chequered flag - it never has been. In the same way (despite the fact I really don't care for football) that a 0-0 football match can be interesting - thrilling even. 

The middle order competition is awesome - and most races this season have had their share of thrills. 

The rose-tinted falsE memories of some lost perfect age of Motorsport are silly. 

stickyfiddle

Completely agree with Tim. This season has, on the whole, been fantastic. We have 2 brilliant drivers, 2 (3?) teams capable of fighting for wins and it's genuinely been a close fight until the last couple of races.

The drop in viewing figures is pretty much a straight line decrease starting with the move away from free-to-air TV. It's pretty simple - no sport can win new fans if non-fans can't watch it without paying money, because why wouldn't anyone ever pay money for something they don't already enjoy?? But Liberty can't fix that overnight because Bernie signed a shitload of long term deals with Sky et al.

As for the sport itself, I'm still really enjoying "F1.5" - it's a really tight fight. 

This chart from Racefans shows exactly the extent of "the problem" as it currently stands. Take away the insane pace of the top 3 cars and you have a *really* close racing series. 

Fretwired

The two-time F1 world champion Fernando Alonso says the sport is becoming too predictable and that is partly why he is retiring. Even Hamilton says a lot of the races are boring. Back in 2015 215,000 F1 fans said F1 is too boring and too technical.

If you're an anal petrol head then all the techie stuff might be interesting but the facts speak for themselves. Falling viewing figures (and it's not just because F1 is no longer free - in the UK the BBC gave up on F1 years ago and viewing figures have continued to drop on Sky and C4), unhappy fans and teams unable to get decent sponsors. Overtaking is also artificial with DRS.

Ross Braun said “I think simplicity is a key objective for the future. I watch Formula 1, I have done for the last few years as a spectator and there’s times when even I haven’t been sure what’s going on in a race.”

When Ross Brawn, one of the most intelligent minds on the F1 pit wall during his time at the likes of Benetton and Ferrari, says he can’t understand F1, you know something’s gone wrong somewhere!

Buy hey look at some charts and everything is rosy. Mexico was shite race - fact! Bottas was lapped .. :-)

stickyfiddle

Alonso says it's boring and predictable because he's predictably at the back. He'd be fine with it if he was driving a Ferrari. Obviously the identity of the winner has been a pretty dull thing to predict through the hybrid era, but this has been the best year in ages, and the midfield in particular has been fantastic. 

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Alonso says it's boring and predictable because he's predictably at the back. He'd be fine with it if he was driving a Ferrari. Obviously the identity of the winner has been a pretty dull thing to predict through the hybrid era, but this has been the best year in ages, and the midfield in particular has been fantastic. 

I agree the midfield has been exciting - it would great if F1 was like that as a whole. I really can't see the point of Monaco either. Probably great if you're there but hey.

Garthy

The same Alonso who is competing in WEC with the only factory team in LMP1  yet still with team orders? 

stickyfiddle

Garthy said:

The same Alonso who is competing in WEC with the only factory team in LMP1  yet still with team orders? 

The Alonso who isn't complaining about the series where literally only one car is able and permitted to win, because it's his car? Yes, him!  

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

The two-time F1 world champion Fernando Alonso says the sport is becoming too predictable and that is partly why he is retiring. 

Nobody sensible thinks this has anything to do with why Alonso is leaving. He's buggered his career (sometimes himself, sometimes unlucky) and has priced himself out of some teams, and made himself unwelcome at others.

Fretwired said:

Even Hamilton says a lot of the races are boring. 

A lot? Really? But yep - he really dose seem to hate it more than most when he can't push for the whole race - but be careful what you wish for - a durable tyre that didn't (in some races, at some points) need care taking with it would mean races where some cars nailed the setup they would head off into the distance at a massive negative delta - where's the excitement then? 

Less-than-full-distance tyres is better for the sport, and given that choice there will be times when the track conditions/temp/setups mean that wear is unpredictably high and conserving becomes a thing. It's here to stay.

Fretwired said:

Overtaking is also artificial with DRS.

Again, that's a response to deliberate decision: not to artificially limit aero complexity and downforce. It's taken a long time to formulate the upcoming regs to simplify front wings (for example) because doing so clumsily will make it unenforceable - the technology and manufacturing advances create the turbulence problem - DRS is a response to it. I was dubious when they brought it in but it works well, imo. The only thing I'd really change about it would be not to have lapped cars trigger it - they are meant to be getting out of the way anyway. 

Fretwired said:

Ross Braun said “I think simplicity is a key objective for the future. I watch Formula 1, I have done for the last few years as a spectator and there’s times when even I haven’t been sure what’s going on in a race.”

ok now really, not even Ross expects anyone to believe that. It's a sop to the newer viewers who do feel that way. Pure marketing. 

TimmyO

But anyway to the whiners - go watch Moto GP, or greyhound racing or something - but for the love of god stop whining about F1. 

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

Ross Braun said “I think simplicity is a key objective for the future. I watch Formula 1, I have done for the last few years as a spectator and there’s times when even I haven’t been sure what’s going on in a race.”

ok now really, not even Ross expects anyone to believe that. It's a sop to the newer viewers who do feel that way. Pure marketing. 

Sorry but you lost in there. It was in a petrol heads mag. There are very few new viewers and as this is my thread so I'll whinge .. go start an F1 is perfect thread .. :-)

Cols

I love F1, but the GP on Sunday had me nodding off halfway through and fast forwarding through the last 10 laps.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

 as this is my thread 

Shark successfully jumped. 

So who is and ins't allowed to post in "your" thread? 

rlw

IMHOFWIW, I thought Mexico wasn't a bad race; maybe a bit technical but as an endurance racing fan, I'm fine with that.  The whole season has been interesting but not very exciting, and that's down to the silly regs.  It won't get better until they change the cars significantly and they can run wheel to wheel and overtake - which probably wont ever happen.

For me, bring back qualifying tyres, t-cars, decent race tyres and refuelling with no limits on any of it.  And put the armco back too.

thumpingrug

stickyfiddle said:

Completely agree with Tim. This season has, on the whole, been fantastic. We have 2 brilliant drivers, 2 (3?) teams capable of fighting for wins and it's genuinely been a close fight until the last couple of races.

The drop in viewing figures is pretty much a straight line decrease starting with the move away from free-to-air TV. It's pretty simple - no sport can win new fans if non-fans can't watch it without paying money, because why wouldn't anyone ever pay money for something they don't already enjoy?? But Liberty can't fix that overnight because Bernie signed a shitload of long term deals with Sky et al.

As for the sport itself, I'm still really enjoying "F1.5" - it's a really tight fight. 

This chart from Racefans shows exactly the extent of "the problem" as it currently stands. Take away the insane pace of the top 3 cars and you have a *really* close racing series. 

Very pretty chart, but what is it showing.  The scale along the x axis is clearly laps into the race.  The spikes on each individual drivers line are presumable their pit stop, but what is the y axis actually showing.  It appears to be time in seconds, but what is it timing?

TimmyO

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

 as this is my thread 

Shark successfully jumped. 

So who is and ins't allowed to post in "your" thread? 

you know what @Fretwired ; - I was in a bit of a mood earlier - I won't delete what I posted because I always think that's a cowardly/dick move but I apologise for being snarky 

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

 as this is my thread 

Shark successfully jumped. 

So who is and ins't allowed to post in "your" thread? 

you know what @Fretwired ; - I was in a bit of a mood earlier - I won't delete what I posted because I always think that's a cowardly/dick move but I apologise for being snarky 

No problem .. I have a thick skin and yes I probably moan too much .. :-)

Modellista

thumpingrug said:

stickyfiddle said:

Completely agree with Tim. This season has, on the whole, been fantastic. We have 2 brilliant drivers, 2 (3?) teams capable of fighting for wins and it's genuinely been a close fight until the last couple of races.

The drop in viewing figures is pretty much a straight line decrease starting with the move away from free-to-air TV. It's pretty simple - no sport can win new fans if non-fans can't watch it without paying money, because why wouldn't anyone ever pay money for something they don't already enjoy?? But Liberty can't fix that overnight because Bernie signed a shitload of long term deals with Sky et al.

As for the sport itself, I'm still really enjoying "F1.5" - it's a really tight fight. 

This chart from Racefans shows exactly the extent of "the problem" as it currently stands. Take away the insane pace of the top 3 cars and you have a *really* close racing series. 

Very pretty chart, but what is it showing.  The scale along the x axis is clearly laps into the race.  The spikes on each individual drivers line are presumable their pit stop, but what is the y axis actually showing.  It appears to be time in seconds, but what is it timing?

Gap to the lead car.  

stickyfiddle

Modellista said:

thumpingrug said:

stickyfiddle said:

Completely agree with Tim. This season has, on the whole, been fantastic. We have 2 brilliant drivers, 2 (3?) teams capable of fighting for wins and it's genuinely been a close fight until the last couple of races.

The drop in viewing figures is pretty much a straight line decrease starting with the move away from free-to-air TV. It's pretty simple - no sport can win new fans if non-fans can't watch it without paying money, because why wouldn't anyone ever pay money for something they don't already enjoy?? But Liberty can't fix that overnight because Bernie signed a shitload of long term deals with Sky et al.

As for the sport itself, I'm still really enjoying "F1.5" - it's a really tight fight. 

This chart from Racefans shows exactly the extent of "the problem" as it currently stands. Take away the insane pace of the top 3 cars and you have a *really* close racing series. 

Very pretty chart, but what is it showing.  The scale along the x axis is clearly laps into the race.  The spikes on each individual drivers line are presumable their pit stop, but what is the y axis actually showing.  It appears to be time in seconds, but what is it timing?

Gap to the lead car.  

Yes, this. Most importantly, it shows that the top 3 teams are spread out a little bit by the end, then there’s a HUGE gap, and the remaining 12 (or however many were left) were all much closer together - all roughly within the same time interval that covered the top 4. 

thumpingrug

Modellista said:

thumpingrug said:

stickyfiddle said:

Completely agree with Tim. This season has, on the whole, been fantastic. We have 2 brilliant drivers, 2 (3?) teams capable of fighting for wins and it's genuinely been a close fight until the last couple of races.

The drop in viewing figures is pretty much a straight line decrease starting with the move away from free-to-air TV. It's pretty simple - no sport can win new fans if non-fans can't watch it without paying money, because why wouldn't anyone ever pay money for something they don't already enjoy?? But Liberty can't fix that overnight because Bernie signed a shitload of long term deals with Sky et al.

As for the sport itself, I'm still really enjoying "F1.5" - it's a really tight fight. 

This chart from Racefans shows exactly the extent of "the problem" as it currently stands. Take away the insane pace of the top 3 cars and you have a *really* close racing series. 

Very pretty chart, but what is it showing.  The scale along the x axis is clearly laps into the race.  The spikes on each individual drivers line are presumable their pit stop, but what is the y axis actually showing.  It appears to be time in seconds, but what is it timing?

Gap to the lead car.  

Cheers.  That makes a lot more sense.  Appreciated.