The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

PC_Dave said:

Bottas confirmed for another season....

That was a certainty when Fretwired said he was going to get the bullet.

Wolff lost his bottle .. they'll regret it. I think that says more about Hamilton's power in the team. He likes Bottas - no serious competition. I can see Vestappen beating Bottas on a regular basis along with Vettel if he and Ferrari can get their act together. I still say Bottas is average. He's no Rosberg.

Nah, Bottas is the perfect number 2. Rosberg was demon-quick, but how many times did he and Ham take each other out?

You can afford that when you’re guaranteed a 1-2, but not when you have Max right there to take the win if you fuck up. 

Octafish

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

PC_Dave said:

Bottas confirmed for another season....

That was a certainty when Fretwired said he was going to get the bullet.

Wolff lost his bottle .. they'll regret it. I think that says more about Hamilton's power in the team. He likes Bottas - no serious competition. I can see Vestappen beating Bottas on a regular basis along with Vettel if he and Ferrari can get their act together. I still say Bottas is average. He's no Rosberg.

Nah, Bottas is the perfect number 2. Rosberg was demon-quick, but how many times did he and Ham take each other out?

You can afford that when you’re guaranteed a 1-2, but not when you have Max right there to take the win if you fuck up. 

As far as I recall just the once in Barcelona 2016.

stickyfiddle

I thought I remembered more than one proper Ham/Ros clash, but I guess not. Still, they were barely on speaking terms at times, so I can fully understand why they don't want to get into that again.

FP1 times now in - Albon instantly within 0.1 of Max. Clearly looking like the switch was good decision!

Cols

Spain 2016 was the only one which ended up with both cars out on the spot.  There were plenty of races where shenanigans resulted in one or both drivers having their race ruined - Spa 2014, USA 2015, Austria 2016 to name but a few.  On top of that, there would have been the off-track headaches of having to manage the arguments about preferential strategy, accusations of favouritism and general paranoia.  I’m not surprised Toto prefers the relative calm of Bottas, who’s quick enough to be useful but not so much as to make Hamilton feel threatened.

TimmyO

stickyfiddle said:

I thought I remembered more than one proper Ham/Ros clash, but I guess not. Still, they were barely on speaking terms at times, so I can fully understand why they don't want to get into that again.

FP1 times now in - Albon instantly within 0.1 of Max. Clearly looking like the switch was good decision!

If he challenges Max genuinely for pace I reckon we'll see a relapse to Captain Petulant - could be interesting

TimmyO

Bottas has won races recently. Saying he's a safe non-threat is bizarre 

Cols

TimmyO said:

Bottas has won races recently. Saying he's a safe non-threat is bizarre 

On his day, Bottas is totally unbeatable.  The lucky thing for Hamilton is that Bottas only has a few of those days every year.

sinbaadi

I think I'd back Hamilton on his day against Bottas on his day.

Cols

sinbaadi said:

I think I'd back Hamilton on his day against Bottas on his day.

And that’s why he’s a 5 time world champion.  That said, currently one of them’s in the wall and four tenths off his teammate’s pace, and it ain’t Bottas...

Fretwired

Sad news ... Formula 2 driver Anthoine Hubert has been killed in a crash at the Belgian Grand Prix, motorsport's governing body the FIA has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/49537761

sweepy

Looked like a huge smash   I'm sure more will come out later but the car looked as though it was torn in half

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Bottas has won races recently. Saying he's a safe non-threat is bizarre 

Bottas hasn't won since 28 April. Hamilton has now won 8 races to Bottas' 2 races. Verstappen has won 2 races and stands a good chance of overtaking Bottas in the championship. In each race since April Hamilton has been faultless whilst Bottas has made mistakes. He's a safe bet in that he can't challenge Hamilton in a race but he scores decent points.

Honda think their next engine upgrade, which is coming soon, will match the power of the Mercedes. On paper Red Bull have the best car - add more power and Mercedes could have a serious challenge. Vestappen has matured and can match Hamilton and Albon is a young driver out to impress. Red Bull Racing is also a well-run team that doesn't make mistakes like Ferrari. Vestappen will win more races .. I can't see Bottas winning any more this season unless Hamilton has a DNF or wins the championship early and helps his team mate out or loses interest.

Bottas has the second half of this season to save his Mercedes seat. With Ocon off to Renault Russell has now moved up the Mercedes driver pecking order. Bottas could find himself back at Williams as Wolff takes a risk and promotes Russell to the Mercedes team in 2020. I think that's why extending Bottas' contract was a no-brainer after Wolff passed on Ocon.

Octafish

sweepy said:

Looked like a huge smash   I'm sure more will come out later but the car looked as though it was torn in half

Hubert lost control out of Eau Rouge and spun into the barriers and as he rebounded back towards the track another car, which had also ran off track, t-boned him just to the rear of the cockpit, probably travelling in the region of 160mph. Other driver has serious leg injuries, but is stable.

Octafish

Cols said:

sinbaadi said:

I think I'd back Hamilton on his day against Bottas on his day.

And that’s why he’s a 5 time world champion.  That said, currently one of them’s in the wall and four tenths off his teammate’s pace, and it ain’t Bottas...

..and despite all that Hamilton then goes and outqualifies Bottas. As you say, that is why he's won the WDC 5 times.

Octafish

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

Bottas has won races recently. Saying he's a safe non-threat is bizarre 

Bottas hasn't won since 28 April. Hamilton has now won 8 races to Bottas' 2 races. Verstappen has won 2 races and stands a good chance of overtaking Bottas in the championship. In each race since April Hamilton has been faultless whilst Bottas has made mistakes. He's a safe bet in that he can't challenge Hamilton in a race but he scores decent points.

The German GP might want to disagree with you . But even the very best make one or two errors a year, Schumacher and Senna have crashed out of the lead in several GPs. More than anythng I think it's Hamilton's relentless race-pace and racecraft that Bottas can't ever hope to compete with.

Fretwired said:

Bottas has the second half of this season to save his Mercedes seat. With Ocon off to Renault Russell has now moved up the Mercedes driver pecking order. Bottas could find himself back at Williams as Wolff takes a risk and promotes Russell to the Mercedes team in 2020. I think that's why extending Bottas' contract was a no-brainer after Wolff passed on Ocon.

Do you mean 2021? Bottas has already been re-signed to Mercedes for 2020.

Fretwired

Octafish said:

Do you mean 2021? Bottas has already been re-signed to Mercedes for 2020.

No 2020. Russell is a Mercedes driver and so is Bottas. Williams is a Mercedes customer. If Bottas doesn't perform in the rest of 2019 Wolff could do a deal with Williams and swap Bottas for Russell. Don't forget Wolff prised Bottas away from Williams.

Octafish

Fretwired said:

Octafish said:

Do you mean 2021? Bottas has already been re-signed to Mercedes for 2020.

No 2020. Russell is a Mercedes driver and so is Bottas. Williams is a Mercedes customer. If Bottas doesn't perform in the rest of 2019 Wolff could do a deal with Williams and swap Bottas for Russell. Don't forget Wolff prised Bottas away from Williams.

I think that's highly unlikely. Wolff hasn't re-signed Bottas for a fourth season on the basis that he suddenly has to start perfoming at Hamilton's level, by now I think Wolff knows that just isn't possible. Bottas does the number 2 job they require and has crashed out just one race this year, he certainly looks better than any second driver Red Bull have had to hand so far and Ferrari are going nowhere.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

Octafish said:

Do you mean 2021? Bottas has already been re-signed to Mercedes for 2020.

No 2020. Russell is a Mercedes driver and so is Bottas. Williams is a Mercedes customer. If Bottas doesn't perform in the rest of 2019 Wolff could do a deal with Williams and swap Bottas for Russell. Don't forget Wolff prised Bottas away from Williams.

Bottas was confirmed for 2020. You're confusing the enthusiasm of your friends for pitlane gossip with the evidence of Wolff's character. 

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Bottas was confirmed for 2020. You're confusing the enthusiasm of your friends for pitlane gossip with the evidence of Wolff's character. 

Wolff is used to winning. Ferrari has the fastest engine and Red Bull are about to get a major engine upgrade. The days of Mercedes dominance are over - if Bottas can't keep up he'll be out of Mercedes. Simple.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

Bottas was confirmed for 2020. You're confusing the enthusiasm of your friends for pitlane gossip with the evidence of Wolff's character. 

Wolff is used to winning. Ferrari has the fastest engine and Red Bull are about to get a major engine upgrade. The days of Mercedes dominance are over - if Bottas can't keep up he'll be out of Mercedes. Simple.

The 210-point gap in the constructor's standings says you're utterly wrong! 

As Schumacher/Barrichello and Vettel/Webber proved, you don't want 2 guys fighting for a title. You want 2 guys who are both demon quick but one is clearly a little better than the other. Honestly, McLaren's 2007 season is great proof of that too - if they'd had virtually anyone "number 2" driver replace either Alonso or Hamilton they'd have walked to the title with whichever driver they had kept.