The F1 thread

Cols

Cols said:

I just have a nagging feeling that the powers that be have decided that it would be ‘“good for business” if Verstappen won the championship this year, just to break the monotony of 8 years of Mercedes domination.

I hate being prophetic.

sticker

thumpingrug said:

sticker said:

A dog shit end to the season , not felt this disillusioned with F1 since Adelaide in 1994 . 

How about 2005 USA G when only 6 cars started

I never saw that race (only read about it after) as I was on Honeymoon with “Mrs sticker v 1.0” … now THAT was also a questionable decision that ended in a car crash that gave 1 party an unfair advantage too

stickyfiddle

Can we just get a moment for Carlos Sainz? 

Everyone seems to put him behind Leclerc, Max, Norris, Russel etc in talk about the new young guys in F1 but he ended up "best of the rest" in the championship, ahead of his multi-race-winning and unquestionably fast teammate. I've always really liked the guy and I'm glad he's finally getting results that show his class properly.

I was going to put "only guy in a new team to beat his teammate" but Alonso and Vettel both managed that as well (at least he's in good company!). Either way, hella good season despite barely being shown on TV for most of it. I really hope next year's Ferrari is quick as both those guys need to be at the front. 

GoldenEraGuitars

Formula one has, from what I’ve seen, been as much about the politics as it has about what happens on the track. I’ve been knowingly watching F1 since I was 7 (90) and I was old enough to remember seeing a lot of amazing moments in the sport. But as a child you don’t appreciate it or understand what is going on behind the scenes. The sport has evolved a lot in line with technology and while it kind of looks the same as it did in the 90s it’s really a far cry from it in every other way. 

I’ve read enough here and on the news to completely drain the last morsel of interest I had away. 

While the race was on my family were getting ready for a hockey match (Belfast vs Nottingham). 60 minutes of fast paced action in which 4 on ice officials keep the play moving and respectful. The rules are VERY clear and are adhered to. There are no politics or BS. The result is the result. The opposing teams are always applauded as they leave the ice and we move onto the next game satisfied that the better team won the match (whether we won or lost that particular game).

I didn’t watch a single lap of that race btw. I didn’t even want to watch the highlights (I systematically removed all F1 suggested videos from YouTube last night while I was watching other videos). I’m so disappointed and disillusioned with all of it. Even if Mercedes are successful (which they won’t be) the finale is so tainted why would anyone want their name on that trophy? I don’t say any of this solely as a Hamilton fan…. I say it as a formula 1 fan who is pretty much giving up on the whole thing. In contrast to ice hockey, formula one seems to favour those who run towards the FIA shouting the loudest while clutching the largest money bags. It is the polar opposite to the game I know and love that is ice hockey.

stickyfiddle

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Formula one has, from what I’ve seen, been as much about the politics as it has about what happens on the track. I’ve been knowingly watching F1 since I was 7 (90) and I was old enough to remember seeing a lot of amazing moments in the sport. But as a child you don’t appreciate it or understand what is going on behind the scenes. The sport has evolved a lot in line with technology and while it kind of looks the same as it did in the 90s it’s really a far cry from it in every other way. 

I’ve read enough here and on the news to completely drain the last morsel of interest I had away. 

While the race was on my family were getting ready for a hockey match (Belfast vs Nottingham). 60 minutes of fast paced action in which 4 on ice officials keep the play moving and respectful. The rules are VERY clear and are adhered to. There are no politics or BS. The result is the result. The opposing teams are always applauded as they leave the ice and we move onto the next game satisfied that the better team won the match (whether we won or lost that particular game).

This is the key bit we're lacking in modern F1. I have no issue with results as long as the rules are fair and followed properly. I'd like to think that's how most Hamilton fans currently feel - it's not about him losing, it's about the fight not being fair.

Merc now have 96 hours to decide whether to actually file the next level of appeal. If they have any sense I would hope they will drop it for the good of the sport (and their own PR), but make a strong statement about wanting the regs clarified so this kind of confusion doesn't happen again. 

GoldenEraGuitars

@stickyfiddle thats pretty much it. If the game is played fair and the rules are followed then the result can be accepted and taken for what it is. Yesterday was such an odd contrast for me (reading about the race) followed by watching a strict game of hockey. After all, hockey penalties are called on the spot but then again they can stop the game at will. A race can’t be stopped for every infringement. But the F1 system needs a drastic overhaul. I think for me, however, it’s too late for that.

stickyfiddle

Yeah. Also worth noting that the shitty FIA decision also hurt Sainz (who had Ricciardo and an Aston between him and Max) and Tsunoda (the other AM in front of him I think?). That meant Yuki had no opportunity to push for a first podium and Sainz couldn't try and stay with Max & Lewis through the last lap. 

Emiel

What a lot of bitterness here.

Article 15.3 clearly states that "the race director shall have overriding authority" in the control of practice and the race, starting procedure, et cetera, and the use of the safety car.

Plus, as stated in the second protest, "It had long been agreed by all the teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a green condition (i.e. not under a safety car)."

stickyfiddle said:

Can we just get a moment for Carlos Sainz? 

Everyone seems to put him behind Leclerc, Max, Norris, Russel etc in talk about the new young guys in F1 but he ended up "best of the rest" in the championship, ahead of his multi-race-winning and unquestionably fast teammate. I've always really liked the guy and I'm glad he's finally getting results that show his class properly.

I was going to put "only guy in a new team to beat his teammate" but Alonso and Vettel both managed that as well (at least he's in good company!). Either way, hella good season despite barely being shown on TV for most of it. I really hope next year's Ferrari is quick as both those guys need to be at the front. 

I'm amazed by Carlos this season. He has adapted really well to a new team, car and engine. On par with Leclerc in the second half of the season, and in the last couple of races, even ahead. Who could have thought that? Ferrari has got a stunning driver pairing. Let's hope next year's Ferrari is a great racing car!

menamestom

F1 has always had controversies.  I don’t like the way it was concluded yesterday but at least it went to the wire.  This season has been much better than some in recent times and at least we have had close racing rather than processional races. 

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Formula_One_controversies

Personally I’m looking forward to next year and have got back into it this season after losing interest a bit.
I’m intrigued as to what the big changes will bring.
They will definitely need a stronger race director for that.

Anybody disillusioned with the sport there are plenty of other formulas / disciplines where the racing is more wheel to wheel and less based on decisions from the governing body.  Loads of local race meets etc.  much like people tire of premier league sometimes and get into grass roots football - motorsport has it’s equivalent.

stickyfiddle

@menamestom I honestly don't think a race being turned on its head by ignoring the rulebook qualifies as "at least it went to the wire". It's fantastic that we had a final race showdown (and thank god for the new Yas layout!) and amazing that the race was even as close as it was, as most races usually aren't. But making kneejerk changes of decision part-way through the penultimate lap in order to guarantee a racing finish (and a big headline) just isn't cricket. 

Every other controversy on that wiki page is a team or driver doing something, or a commercial dispute between teams and FIA.  The biggest issue here is that it's an FIA fuckup, not any of the teams - that's why it feels so unfair because the result feels contrived by the powers that be. 

brooom

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Formula one has, from what I’ve seen, been as much about the politics as it has about what happens on the track. I’ve been knowingly watching F1 since I was 7 (90) and I was old enough to remember seeing a lot of amazing moments in the sport. But as a child you don’t appreciate it or understand what is going on behind the scenes. The sport has evolved a lot in line with technology and while it kind of looks the same as it did in the 90s it’s really a far cry from it in every other way. 

I’ve read enough here and on the news to completely drain the last morsel of interest I had away. 

While the race was on my family were getting ready for a hockey match (Belfast vs Nottingham). 60 minutes of fast paced action in which 4 on ice officials keep the play moving and respectful. The rules are VERY clear and are adhered to. There are no politics or BS. The result is the result. The opposing teams are always applauded as they leave the ice and we move onto the next game satisfied that the better team won the match (whether we won or lost that particular game).

I didn’t watch a single lap of that race btw. I didn’t even want to watch the highlights (I systematically removed all F1 suggested videos from YouTube last night while I was watching other videos). I’m so disappointed and disillusioned with all of it. Even if Mercedes are successful (which they won’t be) the finale is so tainted why would anyone want their name on that trophy? I don’t say any of this solely as a Hamilton fan…. I say it as a formula 1 fan who is pretty much giving up on the whole thing. In contrast to ice hockey, formula one seems to favour those who run towards the FIA shouting the loudest while clutching the largest money bags. It is the polar opposite to the game I know and love that is ice hockey.

I think it is deeply disturbing that Verstappen doesn't seem to have any issues with having his name on the trophy. In his delusioned mind, he won it fair and square. How crazy is that?

Rich210

https://twitter.com/sebsmarguerita/status/1470198732780191747

menamestom

stickyfiddle said:

@menamestom I honestly don't think a race being turned on its head by ignoring the rulebook qualifies as "at least it went to the wire". It's fantastic that we had a final race showdown (and thank god for the new Yas layout!) and amazing that the race was even as close as it was, as most races usually aren't. But making kneejerk changes of decision part-way through the penultimate lap in order to guarantee a racing finish (and a big headline) just isn't cricket. 

Every other controversy on that wiki page is a team or driver doing something, or a commercial dispute between teams and FIA.  The biggest issue here is that it's an FIA fuckup, not any of the teams - that's why it feels so unfair because the result feels contrived by the powers that be. 

Well it did go to the wire.  It went to the last lap of the last race.  I’m not trying to downplay what happened after that.  I’m just saying I’ll be back next year.  Clearly they need to address their weak enforcement of the rules.

I just don’t get the I’m not watching F1 again comments.  Especially from people who don’t watch it anyway.  Every sport has their controversies.
Every governing body ends up in the spotlight at some point.  Get it sorted and move on.

I remember being disillusioned in 1994, the FIA let Schumacher get away with robbing Damon Hill,  took me a long time to get over that.  Perhaps I’m a bit more blasé because I’m not a fan of any particular driver, although based on being the better sportsman I did want Hamilton to win.

Boromedic

Some comments here I can agree with and some I don't. Suffice to say that if that was any other Grand Prix this season the race would've ended behind the safety car. Michael Masi made Max world champion on the last lap of the season, that's what people are complaining about. It's nothing to do with controversial decisions that can even out over a season (Max has had them, Lewis got one at this race on Lap 1. Looking at Mercedes's race pace, the lead of the race was always likely to be in his hands at some point).

Michael Masi and the FIA picked the champion, whatever else happened is fair game, you win some, you lose some but the FIA decided who won yesterday and that's not on.

stickyfiddle

@Boromedic exactly

Boromedic

I also hope Mercedes push this as high as it can go, and win. Even if it leads to the title being changed to Lewis, it's a joke, it really is.

The stewards really need to be looked at and Michael Masi should resign. We can't have this again it's ruining the sport, Liberty wins as the drama makes money and increases viewing. However the comments about wrestling are pretty much on the money. I can't believe how livid I am, shocking.

menamestom

Boromedic said:

Michael Masi and the FIA picked the champion, whatever else happened is fair game, you win some, you lose some but the FIA decided who won yesterday and that's not on.

If they were consciously picking the champion they would have let MV take the position back at the start of the race.  All the commentators thought it should have been handed back, if there was a scheme to get MV the win sure that non-controversial decision should have happened?


I think it was more incompetence, inconsistency and being swayed at the end to have a 1 lap racing conclusion, rather than let the race and under SC, which it should have done.

Boromedic

Lol, I don't think it's a big conspiracy what are you on about. They changed the way they would manage an end of race safety car, knowing full well it would give Max the win. Whatever their pre race thoughts and potential ability to be swayed was, in that moment they knew the decision they made would make Max champion. That's the point here, whether incompetence, indecision or literally being swayed by Red Bull, they decided who was winner. Not only that, they changed normal protocol to do so, that's the reason it's controversial. It's not rocket science.

P.s. Max forced Lewis wide and left him nowhere to go, every other race this season bar 1, Lewis has backed out and done the correct thing. This race he didn't and he gave the advantage back over the lap, he was alongside and where was Lewis meant to go? You can't force people off the track and Max finally got another one to go against him, it's probably still ahead over the season on Max getting a favourable decision.

Simonh

I've been giving this a great deal of thought, one thing that occurs to me is that all season long there have been mutterings and musings that LW and the FIA would prefer to have Max/Red Bull win it this year. You then add to that some very questionable decisions and outcomes that seem to favor Max/Red Bull more frequently than Lewis/Mercedes (not exclusively but just enough to keep you wondering) and then it comes down to the final knockings and a procedure that is usually 100% cut and dried is altered in a way that only suits one driver and one team and it just puts the finishing touch on the whole stinking mess.

the 2021 WDC has been engineered to give Max and Red Bull the best possible opportunity to win by LW and the FIA, even with all that assistance they still didn't manage the constructors. I should have been in Abu Dhabi for the race - I am 100% relieved I didn't bother.

Boromedic

Other drivers made the same move during the race and allowed the other car space to defend into the second corner. Max didn't, that's why it wasn't handed back.