The F1 thread

Simonh

I just want to call out Perez's defence against Lewis as well - what utterly beautiful driving that was. This is what F1 fans want to see.

goldtop

Masi caved to the "let them race" pressure - which has come from both MB and RB. This, despite the obvious imbalance of the tyre situation.

The strongest part of the case is that Masi only cleared certain cars to unlap themselves, protecting Verstappen from any attack by Sainz. But I don't think Mercedes will win any appeal/arbitration case. 

(Horner praises Latifi, but we all know what he'd have said if Bottas had crashed under the SC.)

Boromedic

Even that doesn't matter now (and yes it was great), as the stewards may as well have had Lewis and Max do a one lap rolling start race to decide the title. Lewis on 900 year old tyres and Max on fresh out of the wrappers ultra softs. Fucking joke.

axisus

I bet Max is really happy that he got handed the lottery ticket that won the game of F1 at the last moment. It's been a great reality show. On balance I prefer the days when it was a sport.

Boromedic

axisus said:

I bet Max is really happy that he got handed the lottery ticket that won the game of F1 at the last moment. It's been a great reality show. On balance I prefer the days when it was a sport.

I can't lolwis, so I went with Lol, exactly. Most F1 fans will remember this season as Lewis being robbed at the last race after fighting back to even be in with a chance. Max can say what he wants but he was beaten on the day fair and square.

Haych

Emiel said:

What a lot of bitterness here.

Article 15.3 clearly states that "the race director shall have overriding authority" in the control of practice and the race, starting procedure, et cetera, and the use of the safety car.

Plus, as stated in the second protest, "It had long been agreed by all the teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a green condition (i.e. not under a safety car)."

stickyfiddle said:

Can we just get a moment for Carlos Sainz? 

Everyone seems to put him behind Leclerc, Max, Norris, Russel etc in talk about the new young guys in F1 but he ended up "best of the rest" in the championship, ahead of his multi-race-winning and unquestionably fast teammate. I've always really liked the guy and I'm glad he's finally getting results that show his class properly.

I was going to put "only guy in a new team to beat his teammate" but Alonso and Vettel both managed that as well (at least he's in good company!). Either way, hella good season despite barely being shown on TV for most of it. I really hope next year's Ferrari is quick as both those guys need to be at the front. 

I'm amazed by Carlos this season. He has adapted really well to a new team, car and engine. On par with Leclerc in the second half of the season, and in the last couple of races, even ahead. Who could have thought that? Ferrari has got a stunning driver pairing. Let's hope next year's Ferrari is a great racing car!

It's not bitterness per se, I think most people are upset with the fact that it just wasn't in the spirit of the sport, or the spirit of sportsmanship in any sense.

Personally, as much as I would like to have seen Lewis win an 8th title, it doesn't affect me.  I'm only a passive observer of F1, I don't follow it avidly and watch all the races like some do.  That said, this season has piqued my interest again and I was almost on the verge of once again obtaining a TV licence and signing up for Sky or something so I could follow the 2022 season like I used to when it was on the beeb and ITV.

After last night's race, though, I just don't think I can find the enthusiasm if the powers that be in the sport can make arbitrary decisions in the heat of the moment than completely change the outcome of the race and championship.

As for Article 15.3, fine, I don't dispute what it says and I think most people would agree that having the rule is probably necessary, using it arbitrarily in the way it was used is completely out of line, though.  Had Lewis been behind all race yesterday and had he been gifted the race and the championship in the same way, I would still feel the same.  It's just wrong, it's unjust and that's the part that rankles most people.

If you have a rule that allows the FIA, the stewards and the race director to make up rules and bend others as they see fit for whatever the circumstances are that are happening in the moment then you may as well just rip up the rule book and go home.

Edit: Lastly, if I was Max I wouldn't even want to be associated with that trophy or the title.  To win that way would just leave me feeling equally as cheated.  If he's happy winning that way then I can only assume he's the kind of kid who got good grades at school because his dad complained to the head teacher.

Boromedic

On the money @Haych ;

dazzajl

Some disjointed thoughts from the morning after.....

• F1 shoots itself in the foot more often than any other sport. And while we're all furious today, the lessons of history suggest the storm will pass and the teacup will smooth over long before next season starts.
• My personal and totally unscientific take is that Max was the faster driver this season and that Lewis was the better driver. I have no idea based solely on the driving who I think was the more deserving champion.
• I like Max less now than I did yesterday morning.
• Perez was bloody brilliant in holding Lewis up. I'm not a big fan of his but hat doffed to some hard but very fair fighting over that position.
• We got to see some of Lewis' running to teacher and telling tales yesterday too, that's definitely not just Max
• Lewis showed more grace in defeat than I believe Max could even comprehend.
• I think in Max's mind, Masi's gift of the championship was simply delivering justice. I don't think he'll lose one wink of sleep over how he won.
• I don't care if Lewis beats Micheal's 7 or not. I'd love to see next year start the era of the younger drivers, there are some incredible talents on the grid and it will be wonderful if the new rules shake them towards the front. I especially want to see Russell and Norris racing for podiums and wins.
• Steve Jones is infinitely more likeable than Lazenby.
• Ted is the King of F1 media.
• This total fiasco aside, it's been a pretty entertaining season; by modern standards at least
• I don't see Masi losing his job. That would be the FIA admitting that they got it very wrong. That's not mentioned anywhere in their operating manual.
• For Mercedes, pursuing the legal route seems like the right thing to do. The rules should be examined under a bright and impartial light, to improve the future of the sport. On a personal level, for the sake of the emotional wellbeing of all involved, I hope they don't.

markr76

I’ve just watched a message from James Allison that was emailed to all of the team here at Mercedes. He summed up how I feel perfectly. I’m very proud of what we’ve done at Mercedes and I can hold my head high, winning 8 constructors in a row. That 9 championships for me personally. 

But he also added one of his biggest fears this year was having to see Horner and co celebrating. When it actually came to it, it didn’t feel as bad seeing them as he thought. It was the same for me. I think that’s because although I don’t like Redbull much at all. I do think they were very good this year. They are a good team and although I feel a bit robbed I wouldn’t want to see Max have his championship taken away. Although I respect his talent, I’m not a fan of him. But Max didn’t personally do anything wrong at the end of the race. 

If my team do take this further if all it achieves is getting some change with the fia and making them have a good look at themselves. Then I think that’s a small win there. 

I personally want it left alone now and I just want to enjoy the fact we won the constructors again. Then I want us to put all our energy into making sure we build a beast of a car for next season!

This is the first time in a long time that I think F1 has really sparked the interest of so many new people and the fia had to do their best to make it look a farce. Things really need sorting out. I too don’t like the way f1 has become a soap opera. 

Boromedic

I shall look forward to the next season of the FIAs WWE F1 championship of the world. They should have a Royal Rumble too.

dazzajl

Boromedic said:

I shall look forward to the next season of the FIAs WWE F1 championship of the world. They should have a Royal Rumble too.

Would that be as well as the sprint?

sinbaadi

stickyfiddle said:

Yeah. Also worth noting that the shitty FIA decision also hurt Sainz (who had Ricciardo and an Aston between him and Max) and Tsunoda (the other AM in front of him I think?). That meant Yuki had no opportunity to push for a first podium and Sainz couldn't try and stay with Max & Lewis through the last lap. 

I think that's such a pertinent point, as can you imagine that they would have done it the way they had if Sainz was in the lead and the championship contenders lay in 2nd and 3rd?

It's so contrived and puppeteered that it's impossible to see it as a fair contest.

Fretwired

menamestom said:

If they were consciously picking the champion they would have let MV take the position back at the start of the race.  All the commentators thought it should have been handed back, if there was a scheme to get MV the win sure that non-controversial decision should have happened?

In fairness, the decision to allow Lewis to keep the place was made by the stewards who decided no further investigation was necessary, not Masi. I think it was academic as Lewis had so much pace he'd have breezed past Max, whose tyres started to go off, a few laps later.

Max must be the only F1 champion to win the final race and a championship whilst failing to lead a single lap - he managed half a lap and then crossed the line to win. He was outdriven all afternoon by Lewis who had the raw pace to win. Even Horner admitted they needed help from the racing gods. Had Masi got an ounce of fairness and decency he'd have finished the race under the safety car - and I'd say the same thing had the roles been reversed and Max was in the lead. The PR disaster for the FIA is massive.

Charlie Whiting would have handled this better. Masi seems to think he's on a TV entertainment show like Strictly Come Dancing that needs to be manipulated to keep the audience excited.

At least Jos was embarrased.

dazzajl

markr76 said:

........ That 9 championships for me personally..........

Congratulations on being part of a fantastic team this year, again

Was that other one back with Brawn or have you moved around the teams a bit?

Haych

dazzajl said:

Some disjointed thoughts from the morning after.....

• I don't see Masi losing his job. That would be the FIA admitting that they got it very wrong. That's not mentioned anywhere in their operating manual.

^ This is the pivotal part of it all.  Either way, though, the FIA and Masi lose.  Holding the line makes them look biased and unsporting and puts a massive question mark over the sport.

If they backed down and did the right thing it would be admitting fault and make their positions untenable.

Weren't the teams a few years back talking about pulling out of F1 and starting a new formula?  I can see that being revived under the current balls-up of governance and directorship.

Boromedic

On the money as ever @Fretwired , also agreed that if roles were reversed I wouldn't have wanted Lewis to win the title like that either. Nothing against Max, he did what he had to once the FIA picked him as champion at the end. 

fretmeister

Marko is being classy as ever...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-calls-mercedes-unworthy-losers-threatens-to-quit/

markr76

dazzajl said:

markr76 said:

........ That 9 championships for me personally..........

Congratulations on being part of a fantastic team this year, again

Was that other one back with Brawn or have you moved around the teams a bit?

Cheers. Yeah the other was for the Brawn year. I’ve been at the team since 2006 when it was Honda F1. Before the Brawn year I’d only had a couple of race wins under my belt. 1 with Jordan and 1 with Honda.

markr76

Fretwired said:

menamestom said:

If they were consciously picking the champion they would have let MV take the position back at the start of the race.  All the commentators thought it should have been handed back, if there was a scheme to get MV the win sure that non-controversial decision should have happened?

In fairness, the decision to allow Lewis to keep the place was made by the stewards who decided no further investigation was necessary, not Masi. I think it was academic as Lewis had so much pace he'd have breezed past Max, whose tyres started to go off, a few laps later.

Max must be the only F1 champion to win the final race and a championship whilst failing to lead a single lap - he managed half a lap and then crossed the line to win. He was outdriven all afternoon by Lewis who had the raw pace to win. Even Horner admitted they needed help from the racing gods. Had Masi got an ounce of fairness and decency he'd have finished the race under the safety car - and I'd say the same thing had the roles been reversed and Max was in the lead. The PR disaster for the FIA is massive.

Charlie Whiting would have handled this better. Masi seems to think he's on a TV entertainment show like Strictly Come Dancing that needs to be manipulated to keep the audience excited.

At least Jos was embarrased.

I agree with everything you have said here. I hope the fia have a good look at themselves after this. I also hope that too much damage to the sport hasn’t been done. Although most sports fans are fairly fickle and tend to forget things pretty quickly.

brooom

It's not going to happen, but it would be interesting to see the FIA's reaction to Mercedes leaving the sport over this "mistake".