The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Masi doesn't have that background so has to think much more deeply about every scenario, which he simply doesn't have time for in the middle of a race.

I think it's worse than that - he appears to favour the spectacle over strictly implementing the rules as written. I think that's come from Liberty Media. When Wolff berated him for letting a few lapped cars through Masi replied that "it's a motor race - we went car racing" - that was his justification, even though there is also a rule which states that if the race finishes under a safety car the safety car can come into the pits on the last lap but but no overtaking is allowed. That would have ensured that Hamilton could have taken the flag at speed without having an Aston Martin road car in front of him spoiling all the pictures. I am sure Liberty would have preferred Max to win rather than Lewis again - noting personal against Lewis but a new champion will be good for social media.

Probably true. We can't know for sure, but it's certainly plausible if not likely. 

markr76 said:

Simonh said:

Whiting also fully knew and understood the technical regulations so issue like the merc rear wing would have been handled differently.

There was no issue with our rear wing!

Honestly I was most impressed that your front one didn't disintegrate in the last few laps of Jeddah. I assume some the endplate is not structural and all the horizontal elements are held rigidly by some smaller internal part that didn't get broken?

AustrianJohn

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Masi doesn't have that background so has to think much more deeply about every scenario, which he simply doesn't have time for in the middle of a race.

...Masi replied that "it's a motor race - we went car racing" - that was his justification...

Let's be very, very clear, Masi didn't "go racing", he very deliberately handed the drivers championship to Max.

Cols

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Masi doesn't have that background so has to think much more deeply about every scenario, which he simply doesn't have time for in the middle of a race.

I think it's worse than that - he appears to favour the spectacle over strictly implementing the rules as written. I think that's come from Liberty Media. When Wolff berated him for letting a few lapped cars through Masi replied that "it's a motor race - we went car racing" - that was his justification, even though there is also a rule which states that if the race finishes under a safety car the safety car can come into the pits on the last lap but but no overtaking is allowed. That would have ensured that Hamilton could have taken the flag at speed without having an Aston Martin road car in front of him spoiling all the pictures. I am sure Liberty would have preferred Max to win rather than Lewis again - noting personal against Lewis but a new champion will be good for social media.

This made me wonder where Masi actually draws his paycheck from.  Because he does behave like a circus ringmaster, becoming part of the show rather than a race director working in the background to keep things consistent.

Given that, it was a bit of a surprise to find out that he’s employed by the FIA rather than Liberty.  It’s a bit of an existential crisis for F1; does it want to be sport or entertainment?  If it wants to be a professional sport, he’s the wrong man for the job.  If it wants to be a personality-driven entertainment series, he’s a good choice.

sev112

I just think they should nullify the last race

Cols

sev112 said:

I just think they should nullify the last race

That wouldn’t change the outcome of the driver’s WC.  Max and Lewis would be equal on points, but Max takes it on more wins in the season.

If one wanted to manipulate the outcome in Hamilton’s direction, it would be more effective to admit that droning around behind a safety car for a few laps at a sodden Spa did not merit points.

goldtop

FIA statement: https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia-world-motor-sport-council

A quote: "The FIA’s primary responsibility at any event is to ensure ... the integrity of the sport."

Some wags have immediately pointed out that - according to Masi and Red Bull - 'any' does not mean 'all'.

DesVegas

Max did have to overtake Lewis on that last lap. I know he had better tyres and all the cars moved out the way but an element of skill was still required to win

Cols

DesVegas said:

Max did have to overtake Lewis on that last lap. I know he had better tyres and all the cars moved out the way but an element of skill was still required to win

Max on brand new super-sticky softs, Lewis on ancient rock-hard tyres, and the race director having deftly closed the pack up and shuffled any cars between them out of the way?

My granny could’ve overtaken Lewis in those circumstances, and she handed in her dinner pail in 2007.

sev112

Cols said:

sev112 said:

I just think they should nullify the last race

That wouldn’t change the outcome of the driver’s WC.  Max and Lewis would be equal on points, but Max takes it on more wins in the season.

If one wanted to manipulate the outcome in Hamilton’s direction, it would be more effective to admit that droning around behind a safety car for a few laps at a sodden Spa did not merit points.

And hence it seems a good idea.  The farce of a race doesn’t lead to the outcome.  

markr76

DesVegas said:

Max did have to overtake Lewis on that last lap. I know he had better tyres and all the cars moved out the way but an element of skill was still required to win

That’s not the point everyone is upset about though. Max is a very good, skilful driver. 

The problem is with the fia, they changed/broke the rules to suit what they wanted from the race. Which was to get the new f1 champion they wanted. 

goldtop

Seems that a lot of the old guard - Bernie, Jackie, etc - wanted to see MV win the WDC. Maybe that also goes for the grandees at the FIA?

markr76

goldtop said:

Seems that a lot of the old guard - Bernie, Jackie, etc - wanted to see MV win the WDC. Maybe that also goes for the grandees at the FIA?

Well it’s not good commercially for any sport if there’s too much dominance. 

Cols

goldtop said:

FIA statement: https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia-world-motor-sport-council

A quote: "The FIA’s primary responsibility at any event is to ensure ... the integrity of the sport."

Some wags have immediately pointed out that - according to Masi and Red Bull - 'any' does not mean 'all'.

“ This matter will be discussed and addressed with all the teams and drivers to draw any lessons from this situation and clarity to be provided to the participants, media, and fans about the current regulations.”

This sounds an awful lot like “Anyone who sees anything wrong here just needs to have the rules explained to them very slowly”.

Andy79

Cols said:

DesVegas said:

Max did have to overtake Lewis on that last lap. I know he had better tyres and all the cars moved out the way but an element of skill was still required to win

Max on brand new super-sticky softs, Lewis on ancient rock-hard tyres, and the race director having deftly closed the pack up and shuffled any cars between them out of the way?

My granny could’ve overtaken Lewis in those circumstances, and she handed in her dinner pail in 2007.

Anything like my granny she would have burned the clutch out first. But I take ur point 

thumpingrug

goldtop said:

FIA statement: https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia-world-motor-sport-council

A quote: "The FIA’s primary responsibility at any event is to ensure ... the integrity of the sport."

Some wags have immediately pointed out that - according to Masi and Red Bull - 'any' does not mean 'all'.

Cant help but feel that this is being used to take the heat out any further formal action.  They have accepted the situation need to be looked at and that all parties will be involved.  It allows an out of court - behind closed doors - agreement  to be reached.

poopot

thumpingrug said:

Cant help but feel that this is being used to take the heat out any further formal action.  

I can’t help but feel it’s all starting to be orchestrated by netfilx

script writers deciding the outcome of the races the week before… all the drivers are now actors and just following stage direction

Haych

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you all. 

Get your lols at the ready. 

About ten laps to go Christian Horner says they need a miracle to win. A couple of laps later Latifi crashes into the barrier, in Coulthard’s words - racing no one but himself, causing the safety car to come out. 

During the SC period there’s pressure from RB to clear the cars between LH and MV. 

Was it a contingency plan all along in case Lewis walked away with the race lead?  It perhaps didn’t pan out quite the way it was supposed to with the back markers between Lewis and Max, hence Horner’s protests, the clearing of the backmarkers and the botched safety car rules. 

Max gets the win, Latifi cashes in somehow, maybe a drive in a Red Bull a couple of seasons from now, or maybe a payday, maybe both. 

Daft as it seems it wouldn’t be the first time in sport the players had been paid off and the outcome fixed or manipulated. 

Go on, get your lols in. I would if I could.

Teetonetal

Haych said:

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you all. 

Get your lols at the ready. 

About ten laps to go Christian Horner says they need a miracle to win. A couple of laps later Latifi crashes into the barrier, in Coulthard’s words - racing no one but himself, causing the safety car to come out. 

During the SC period there’s pressure from RB to clear the cars between LH and MV. 

Was it a contingency plan all along in case Lewis walked away with the race lead?  It perhaps didn’t pan out quite the way it was supposed to with the back markers between Lewis and Max, hence Horner’s protests, the clearing of the backmarkers and the botched safety car rules. 

Max gets the win, Latifi cashes in somehow, maybe a drive in a Red Bull a couple of seasons from now, or maybe a payday, maybe both. 

Daft as it seems it wouldn’t be the first time in sport the players had been paid off and the outcome fixed or manipulated. 

Go on, get your lols in. I would if I could.

There are lots of sports where the sequence of events plus the "manipulated" but not quite guaranteed outcome would certainly raise a few eyebrows with those looking into betting irregularities....

Whilst I am sure the above is fanciful, stranger things in professional sport have happened and found to be fixed.

Sadly you can see where such nonsenses comes from.

Cols

Nah.  Latifi drives for Williams, which is a Mercedes vassal these days.

Now, it would have been a different situation if Marko had come onto the AlphaTauri radio a few laps before and said “Okay Yuki.  Time to push.  The car. Into the wall.”

menamestom

I know the cars are pretty safe nowadays but I think purposely crashing into a wall would be a bit of a high risk strategy.  Just being stationary at the exit of a corner is bad enough.  Not really in the same league as letting a goal in on purpose, for instance.