The F1 thread

Cig35

Boromedic said:

chillidoggy said:

I see Hamster is moaning about one team being head and shoulders above the rest turning fans off watching F1. Jesus H, that’s rich, he never moaned when Merc were winning everything.

Maybe it’s something to do with him being down in 13th.

Where did you read this, all I can find is him complaining about the car?

At the end of the day though, I don't think Mercedes ever had this much advantage for this long regardless, and the inter team rivalry was more interesting until Bottas arrived. So here's hoping Perez can keep up with Max once they're off the street circuits. I think we need to see the cars on a normal circuit again to get a true reflection of the pace differences.

All that said, fair play to Adrian Newey once again.

Well, whenever there is a change in the regulations one team will often come out clearly on top, and this time it is Red Bull but I would say that the Mercedes dominance during 2014-2017 was bigger than Red Bulls dominance 2022. So the Red Bull current dominance has lasted a bit over a year while the Mercedes clear dominance lasted for four years.

Some stats to compare:

2014-2017:

Mercedes poles:  95%, 95%, 95%. 75%

Mercedes wins:   84%, 84%, 90%, 65%

Different race winners, drivers: 3, 3, 3, 5

But as you say, at least there was clear internal competition between the two Mercedes drivers at least for 2014-2016

Compare that to Red Bull dominance which can only be said to have been for 2022 and the beginning of 2023 so far:

Red Bull 2022

Poles: 36%

Race wins: 73%

Different race winners, drivers: 5

(I do agree that Red Bull look to be totally dominant this year)

chillidoggy

It’s always refreshing when one team is dominant, only to be beaten by another. But hasn’t the dominance thing been a feature of not only F1, but also other motor racing disciplines? Le Mans is one I’d put forward as a case in point, and there are probably others.

 But to me it’s not worth arguing about, it just IS, and no amount of verbal exchanges here  will change what happens on track.

Boromedic

chillidoggy said:

It’s always refreshing when one team is dominant, only to be beaten by another. But hasn’t the dominance thing been a feature of not only F1, but also other motor racing disciplines? Le Mans is one I’d put forward as a case in point, and there are probably others.

 But to me it’s not worth arguing about, it just IS, and no amount of verbal exchanges here  will change what happens on track.

Yeah it's definitely a feature really, I think the golden era of the 70s and 80s had so much unreliability it added a level of unpredictability to the show. Since they sorted that, it's allowed that dominance to take hold of a season more, but it's certainly not new. McLaren in 88-89 for instance, Williams 85-87 and 92-94. 

chillidoggy

Boromedic said:

chillidoggy said:

It’s always refreshing when one team is dominant, only to be beaten by another. But hasn’t the dominance thing been a feature of not only F1, but also other motor racing disciplines? Le Mans is one I’d put forward as a case in point, and there are probably others.

 But to me it’s not worth arguing about, it just IS, and no amount of verbal exchanges here  will change what happens on track.

Yeah it's definitely a feature really, I think the golden era of the 70s and 80s had so much unreliability it added a level of unpredictability to the show. Since they sorted that, it's allowed that dominance to take hold of a season more, but it's certainly not new. McLaren in 88-89 for instance, Williams 85-87 and 92-94. 

Ah, yes. The unreliability used to leave me fuming, and shouting at the TV. Seemed like half the field never finished the bloody race.

I was at Silverstone for the British GP one year, Damon Hill in his Williams did four laps before a wheel bearing failure sent him into the gravel at the end of the pit straight. £130 to see my hero, and it wasn’t to be. Mind you, the sight of Schumacher passing the Luffield grandstand on fire was a sight for sore eyes, the Ferrari fans simply got up and walked away.

Cig35

I could have quoted the last three posts, and I totally agree with what you are saying. For LeMans this year I have no idea who will win the new Hypercar class, but the last couple of years a good guess for LMP1 class victory was always Toyota.

What I like about F1 this year is that the grid has been "compacted" (apart from Red Bull up front). Previously the case has been that you could normally name 8 drivers and 4 constructors that would most probably make Q3.This year it is much more competitive so Its roughly Red Bull x2, Ferrari x2, and Alonso to Q3, but the rest is wide open.

What I will keep my eyes on now and coming races is if Alpine has found a way to benefit from the new floor they introduced in Baku.That weekend it was "too efficient" compared to expectations, which is the reason they broke Parc Ferme for both cars.They were forced to change the setting since the new floor brought so much downforce that the cars were running too low with the selected settings and over a full race distance they would have been disqualified because of too much plank wear. So far this weekend it looks really promising

And i will also watch Sauber/Alfa Romeo. They started the season quite strongly but then went to the back and have been struggling. This weekend looked the same until FP3 when they tried new settings on Bottas car. They called the changes they made extreme and radical, but suddenly Bottas produced competitive lap times, so they made the same changes to Zhou's car for qualifying and it seemed to work for both drivers. Are the settings track specific or have they found something that will make them competitive going forward? Only time will tell...  

TimmyO

What the hell is this walk-out nonsense 

Cols

The Merc period of dominance was at least interesting for the first 3 years while Rosberg was there; he gave Hamilton a hard time at least.  

Bottas could thrash Hamilton, on his day.  Unfortunately he only had a few of those days every year.

 From 2017 onwards, the only interesting seasons in the ‘Merc domination’ era were 2018 - when Ferrari had the best car and should have won it - and 2021, when the deck had been heavily tilted in Red Bull’s favour.

Verstappen is very much Red Bull’s golden boy, as Vettel was before.  Whoever’s in the other seat will be permitted to prevail over him on the days when Max isn’t in contention.  And in the era of excellent reliability, that’s not going to happen too often.

Which is a bit dull for the viewers.  

fretmeister

Please rain a bit. 

Boromedic

TimmyO said:

What the hell is this walk-out nonsense 

"Qué"? Is it some US showbiz bollox, not watched it yet.

sweepy

Agreed, that walk out stuff was embarrassing , terrible race, gave up 9 laps before the end, please FIA no more of this American trashy bollocks 

mikeyrob73

Another race I have bothered watching till the end 

F1 really is boring at moment 

stickyfiddle

Well I watched the first few laps then fell asleep. Didn’t miss anything by the sounds of it. 

And that intro stuff was hilarious. Someone in marketing needs to read up on the concept of authenticity and how audiences are never impressed when something doesn’t feel right.

Kilgore

Well that was another snoozefest.

chillidoggy

I wasn't expecting Max to win, but fair play, he drove perfectly. And well done to Alonso for getting another podium.

Overall though, I agree it was a pretty boring race. I just don't like the venue, hard to say why, it just looks fake somehow. 

Cols

I must have missed whatever the “walk-out” was; I assume it’s whatever pre-race bollocks I fast-forwarded through.

Bit depressing for poor Perez; he can’t beat Verstappen even when it’s handed to him on a plate.  Watching Max happily drive around both Leclerc and Magnussen in one corner was, indeed, like he was playing a video game on easy mode.

sinbaadi

Boromedic said:

sinbaadi said:

Boromedic said:

Stop being obtuse, you know full well why Sergio is at Red Bull and it's nowt to do with being a GOAT.

On your criteria, good job no one was asking you then.

I'm not making claims.  Nobody can objectively say who is the best driver in the current field, let alone in the history of the sport.  You use results to judge a successful driver whilst ignoring other drivers in lesser cars who have absolutely no chance of getting the same results.  Pop Lando in the '07 McLaren, or LeClerc, or Max, or Schumacher, or countless others if you want to play impossible comparisons properly.  Maybe one of them doesn't beach it on the way in to pit lane in China and wins the title in their debut season.  Not many get such a chance in their very first season in F1.

Hamilton is excellent, he has fended off some decent teammates along the way.  Not every time, but most of the time. 

Lol, he took on the class of the field in 07, his debut season, in the same car and nearly took the title. Were it not for Fernando's machinations and McLaren being stupid he might well have done it. Beaching his car rests a lot on McLaren leaving him out too long, and as a rookie he was relying more on his team, he wanted to pit but was being told to stay out. Even other teams were incredulous as they could see his tyres. 

Fernando has roundly beaten every other team mate except one, and at that stage he was in his prime, beating Schumacher twice no less. I think that's enough of a comparison to put Lewis up there. He was in that McLaren because he was good enough at the end of day. 

Yes it's difficult to compare era's and also good fortune, best cars etc. but it's still something most of us do. It's part of the talking points of the sport, same in football, snooker, golf etc., Lewis is in that conversation though and you only got defensive about comparing folk after you'd had a dig at him being the GOAT. 

I love the conversation, but so many labelled him GOAT because of the Mercedes era of dominance which makes zero sense.   We have no way of knowing if he's past his best now, and we have no way of knowing if Russell would have beaten him in those championship winning years (Rosberg managed it once).  Let alone whether Senna or Prost or whoever else would have.

Each generation of drivers compete for a handful of seats in cars that can win races, even fewer that can win championships, and whilst perhaps the romantic view is that the best drivers get those opportunities, there's literally no way of knowing that, and teams that win don't typically swap drivers anyway.

RBR in their technical brilliance have gifted Max the opportunity to win championships, and he seems to be very good.  Had they not done so, there would be huge noise around Alonso, who by bringing up AM and winning so many races in an underdog car, surely underlines that he is the best of all time.  Well he's exactly the same driver whether he's placing 3rd repeatedly, or 1st.  Just as Norris is, or LeClerc, or Max.  

skullfunkerry

I"m definitely not the biggest Red Bull fan, but this is pretty cool:

https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1655194668559134722

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Due to work commitments I only managed to watch the race ln catch-up this morning. Was I watching a different race to everyone else? The consensus here seems to be that it was a boring snoozefest, but I just don't get it? 

Ok, the win was pretty comprehensive for Max, but he still had to pass his way from 9th to 1st on track, including a pass for the lead 10 laps from the end. Behind that there was loads of really great wheel to wheel racing and tons of on track passing, something you rarely see on a street circuit. And the majority of passes had to be done under breaking rather than just opening the DRS and wafting past halfway down the straight, which made a nice change to Baku.

Ok, maybe it wasn't an absolute classic for the ages, but I've seen a LOT worse motor races than that.

TimmyO

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

Due to work commitments I only managed to watch the race ln catch-up this morning. Was I watching a different race to everyone else? The consensus here seems to be that it was a boring snoozefest, but I just don't get it? 

Ok, the win was pretty comprehensive for Max, but he still had to pass his way from 9th to 1st on track, including a pass for the lead 10 laps from the end. Behind that there was loads of really great wheel to wheel racing and tons of on track passing, something you rarely see on a street circuit. And the majority of passes had to be done under breaking rather than just opening the DRS and wafting past halfway down the straight, which made a nice change to Baku.

Ok, maybe it wasn't an absolute classic for the ages, but I've seen a LOT worse motor races than that.

I agree I didn't find it snoozy - there was genuine will-he-won't-he most of the way through (despite me being a McLaren fan and having nothing to be excited about there) 

chillidoggy

You’re correct in what you say, and I wasn’t expecting a Max win but for me it’s the track that let it down. I’m an old fart, and I just don’t like street tracks, any of them. Give me the classic proper tracks any day. Except Castellet, that looks like one big set of Martini stripes.