The F1 thread

menamestom

On the back of Spa last week was looking this classic from ‘98.

https://youtu.be/R22nxVYLaBQ

They didn’t give up in those days, last man standing.  Love it when Brundle says they will have to red flag it as about 10 wrecked cars slide down the track.  No shit Martin!

skullfunkerry

So it looks like Felipe Massa is pressing ahead with his case. Big sigh... he was definitely unlucky, but this just feels icky. And if he's successful it's going to open a *massive* can of worms with other drivers feeling that they have claims

https://www.planetf1.com/news/felipe-massa-2008-legal-challenge-problem/

Boromedic

Well the even more obvious one is Lewis in 2021, if Massa wins, that's a slam dunk. However, Lewis also has a claim to Belgium in 2008 among others. It'll be a nightmare, but I still think 2021 is a biggie.

stickyfiddle

I've always kinda thought Lewis deserved 2007 and Massa 2008. And obviously Lewis 2021. But changing changing things post-hoc is daft. I assume Felipe will get some cash out of it but no more

thumpingrug

He must feel very bitter to have carried this for so long.  I hope that he gains some money from it but I do feel his action should be against Renault and not the FIA.

Also, I suspect they will argue that he could have chosen not to pit.  I've copied this para from the article posted above which to me points a big finger of responsibility for Massa's loss of points in that race at him and Ferarri themselves.

Massa was leading the race at that point, and when the Safety Car came out, it prompted a flurry of pit stops, and with it Massa’s chances of points disappeared when a botched stop saw him drive away with his fuel hose still attached to his Ferrari.

Dodge

Boromedic said:

Well the even more obvious one is Lewis in 2021, if Massa wins, that's a slam dunk.

I was under the impression that one of the reasons Mercedes withdrew their appeal in 21 because even if they were successful the FIA would have to void the race result but Verstappen would still be WDC as prior to the race they were level on points but Verstappen having more wins, thus still winning the WDC.

Voiding Singapore 08 would mean Massa winning the WDC.

steer

Is Massa going to sue his Ferrari Pit crew as well, for when he was released with the fuel hose still attached in Singapore that year?

Its just a bit pathetic really. 

Boromedic

Dodge said:

Boromedic said:

Well the even more obvious one is Lewis in 2021, if Massa wins, that's a slam dunk.

I was under the impression that one of the reasons Mercedes withdrew their appeal in 21 because even if they were successful the FIA would have to void the race result but Verstappen would still be WDC as prior to the race they were level on points but Verstappen having more wins, thus still winning the WDC.

Voiding Singapore 08 would mean Massa winning the WDC.

Don't know that about 21, but in reality the stewards basically fixed the outcome so the race doesn't have to be voided, they could just apply the rules to it properly and finish the race as it was behind the safety car. Unlike Singapore which was hidden and underhand, seeing the FIA effectively decide who gets the title in 2021 is a different scenario.

Secondly, Lewis could appeal the 25 second penalty he received at Spa in 08 which was unfairly applied, so in reality a void race at Singapore wouldn't affect him, where does it end? Why should Lewis or any other driver be penalised because one team tried to cheat and Bernie is a racist asshole.

Cols

It’s a fundamentally flawed argument.  Teams and drivers, alas, break rules all the time.  And when they’re caught doing it, they get punished (or at least they should be).

So Renault rigged things to ensure an Alonso win (and I don’t believe for a second that Fernando was unaware - his strategy made zero sense without a safety car right at that point, and he’s not the kind of driver to unquestioningly go along with a seemingly dumb strategy).  It was, indeed remarked on at the time… but no-one could prove anything,

But let’s imagine they did, and the team were caught red-handed.  What do you imagine would have happened?  Simple - Alonso would have been stripped of his win and everyone else would have been shuffled up - Rosberg would have taken victory for Williams, Hamilton would have been promoted to 2nd, and the unfortunate Massa would go from 13th to 12th.

Never have I heard of the results of an entire Grand Prix being stricken from the record because one team cheated.  In fact, I’ve never heard a Grand Prix’s results being cancelled for any reason.  The only race of which I can think which really ought not to be classified is the 2021 Belgian Grand Prix; 2 laps tooling around behind a safety car is not a race in anyone’s books, regardless of how useful it was in ensuring that the money ended up in the right pockets; no refunds for the spectators, the circuit has to pay its race hosting fee, and the TV money still flows.

Boromedic

Belgium 21 indeed should have been cancelled.......... Meant to mention that one above!

Cols

And we know what the final standings for 2021 would’ve looked like without the points from Belgium…

The point is, if you’re going to start running around cancelling Grand Prix results in their entirety because the race wasn’t conducted properly or one of the participating teams broke the rules, you’re going to need a lot of red ink.

stickyfiddle

Summer's over and that means Max is going to win again at Zaandvort. But at least the forecast is for it to be shitting down all weekend so it might be interesting  

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

stickyfiddle said:

Summer's over and that means Max is going to win again at Zaandvort. But at least the forecast is for it to be shitting down all weekend so it might be interesting  

Might sound cruel, but I'd laugh if the only race Max didn't win this year was his home GP!

fretmeister

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

stickyfiddle said:

Summer's over and that means Max is going to win again at Zaandvort. But at least the forecast is for it to be shitting down all weekend so it might be interesting  

Might sound cruel, but I'd laugh if the only race Max didn't win this year was his home GP!

And that would ruin his attempt at the most wins in a row.

If that happens, ideally by him making a mistake and wrecking the car by crashing into his teammate, I suspect my emotional state will be quite sexual.

I want to see the crowds leaving early because he's out.

Cols

fretmeister said:

I want to see the crowds leaving early because he's out.

I remember seeing the crowds leaving en masse at Brazil 1994 after Senna spun off while trying to chase down Schumacher in the closing stages.  I thought it was a bit of a disrespectful gesture; I appreciate they were all there to see their national hero win, but it’s a bit nasty to not even hang around for the other drivers.

So I wouldn’t like to see it, but given the past behaviour of Max’s Orange Army it would not surprise me in the slightest.

stickyfiddle

fretmeister said:

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

stickyfiddle said:

Summer's over and that means Max is going to win again at Zaandvort. But at least the forecast is for it to be shitting down all weekend so it might be interesting  

Might sound cruel, but I'd laugh if the only race Max didn't win this year was his home GP!

And that would ruin his attempt at the most wins in a row.

If that happens, ideally by him making a mistake and wrecking the car by crashing into his teammate, I suspect my emotional state will be quite sexual.

I want to see the crowds leaving early because he's out.

I'm honestly tied between this and RB winning every race. The latter largely because it would give phenomenal ammunition against the Lewis-haters/Max-zealots who are convinced Lewis only won because of a great car while Max is winning purely on talent. 

stickyfiddle

@Cols

If they're playing to standard form they'll be too drunk to know what's going on on-track by the end of the race anyway...

Cols

Broken wrist for the unfortunate Ricciardo.  Liam Lawson gets his chance to shine.

I’m sure Perez will be having a celebratory pint this evening…

stickyfiddle

Yeah, really shit for DR - absolutely nowhere to go but into the wall or Piastri. Hope he can get mended quickly 

stickyfiddle

Cracking last bit of quali, behind Max at least!