Titanic tourist submersible gone missing

LionAquaLooper

tony99 said:

I'm guessing they're done at this point. They may have had 96 hours worth of normal conditions oxygen - but down in the deep, dark and cold, about zero degrees, condensation everywhere ? Panic would have well set in by now at least with one or two of them; hyperventilation and the oxygen wouldn't have lasted 

Apparently there's a chance they're actually at the surface, or near it, because of the fact the sono buoys picked up those sounds.  They'd still be trapped obviously but seeing light in the porthole and slightly warmer temp would be a bit better I would think.

Haych

If the sub is on the sea floor, even if the rescue team knew exactly where it was located, I'd tend to agree that getting the equipment on site and down to that depth to even attempt a rescue in time would have slim chances of success.

If they're at the surface then the situation might be even worse.  I can't imagine being trapped inside a confined space, so close to breathable air but unable to - and able to see daylight, and be then forced to suffocate as oxygen inside the vessel runs out.

Danny1969

Assuming they have oxygen then  they also need the filteration system to keep working,  otherwise they will be poisoned by carbon dioxide in much the same way the Apollo 13 crew were before they sorted out the filters. 
If the sub suffered a failure of it's electric systems that caused it to go awol then that may have already happened. 

mark123

https://twitter.com/FridaGhitis/status/1671120043126423553

That contoller gets bad review from gamers , losing connection , breaking down etc .they must have some back up incase it did fail.

mark123

If they do find it what can they do ? The cannot get anything over quick enough to bring it to the surface, and then i imagine there would be a few stops on the way back up ? 
Need a miracle, on the surface and found ? Wouod it be just a case if opening it ?

Sesh

The whole venture seems to have been built on arrogance. The man in charge with his "safety is for pussies" attitude and a gung-ho approach. Not surprising this has happened. Surely it could have had a tether, an auto resurface function, a tracking beacon, a means of escape on resurfacing and a life raft? The idea that "if something goes wrong we die" is moronic. It should be "if something goes wrong we do this, this, this, we have backup capabilites." There may not be much that could be done in this situation, but the shrug and a cigar posturing is vile.

The question is, has the idea that they only have finite O2 occurred to the occupants? If so, has one of them decided if 5 people have 24hrs O2, 1 person has 5 days. Sorry, that's a really grim thought. 

tony99

mark123 said:

If they do find it what can they do ? The cannot get anything over quick enough to bring it to the surface, and then i imagine there would be a few stops on the way back up ? 
Need a miracle, on the surface and found ? Wouod it be just a case if opening it ?

If they did manage to haul it up (very unlikely), I think it  could go straight up no? No need to safety stop if it's pressurised. Is that what you mean?

Stratavarious

Meanwhile fishermen are netting dead babies in the Med.

LionAquaLooper

Sesh said:

The whole venture seems to have been built on arrogance. The man in charge with his "safety is for pussies" attitude and a gung-ho approach. Not surprising this has happened. Surely it could have had a tether, an auto resurface function, a tracking beacon, a means of escape on resurfacing and a life raft? The idea that "if something goes wrong we die" is moronic. It should be "if something goes wrong we do this, this, this, we have backup capabilites." There may not be much that could be done in this situation, but the shrug and a cigar posturing is vile.

The question is, has the idea that they only have finite O2 occurred to the occupants? If so, has one of them decided if 5 people have 24hrs O2, 1 person has 5 days. Sorry, that's a really grim thought. 

Apparently it does have an auto resurface function, which involves releasing the old construction pipes that they've repurposed as ballast tanks.  I repeat - old construction pipes.

Sassafras

A way to conserve oxygen would be for one of them to kill the other four.

Offset

Even with a (hopefully) happy ending - and there IS still hope - this is one business that is, dare I say it, dead in the water.

Haych

Offset said:

Even with a (hopefully) happy ending - and there IS still hope - this is one business that is, dare I say it, dead in the water.

America is a litigious country, whether the ending is happy or not, and despite any amount of waivers signed I expect the lawyers will already be sharpening their pencils.

Hurling_Fruitmig

LionAquaLooper said:

Sesh said:

The whole venture seems to have been built on arrogance. The man in charge with his "safety is for pussies" attitude and a gung-ho approach. Not surprising this has happened. Surely it could have had a tether, an auto resurface function, a tracking beacon, a means of escape on resurfacing and a life raft? The idea that "if something goes wrong we die" is moronic. It should be "if something goes wrong we do this, this, this, we have backup capabilites." There may not be much that could be done in this situation, but the shrug and a cigar posturing is vile.

The question is, has the idea that they only have finite O2 occurred to the occupants? If so, has one of them decided if 5 people have 24hrs O2, 1 person has 5 days. Sorry, that's a really grim thought. 

Apparently it does have an auto resurface function, which involves releasing the old construction pipes that they've repurposed as ballast tanks.  I repeat - old construction pipes.

That's probably the least dodgy part of the whole vessel. There's no difference between recycled disposable deadweight and expensive bespoke deadweight.

LionAquaLooper

Well is it really just dead weight, or a proper ballast where water is pumped in and out to sink/float the vessel? Because if its the latter, i wouldn't want old recycled pipes to be my main way of getting back to the surface. 

Cols

Haych said:

Offset said:

Even with a (hopefully) happy ending - and there IS still hope - this is one business that is, dare I say it, dead in the water.

America is a litigious country, whether the ending is happy or not, and despite any amount of waivers signed I expect the lawyers will already be sharpening their pencils.

Signing a safety waiver indicates an acceptance of the inherent risk of the activity.  

However, it’s pretty apparent that the media coverage is building up a (possibly deserved) picture of negligence, against which a waiver holds somewhat less protection.

AK99

Sesh said:

The whole venture seems to have been built on arrogance. The man in charge with his "safety is for pussies" attitude and a gung-ho approach. Not surprising this has happened. Surely it could have had a tether, an auto resurface function, a tracking beacon, a means of escape on resurfacing and a life raft? The idea that "if something goes wrong we die" is moronic. It should be "if something goes wrong we do this, this, this, we have backup capabilites." There may not be much that could be done in this situation, but the shrug and a cigar posturing is vile.

 I listened to an interesting interview with a retired RN / NATO underwater rescue specialist on the radio this morning, He was scathing about the whole venture. Said not only was the submersible built and being operated in ways that are totally unregulated but that - in his words - there appears to have been no Plan B or backup of any kind to cater for the numerous forseeable ways things could go wrong. No tether/trailing buoy, no duplication of systems onboard, no releasable emergency beacon and myriad other shortfalls.

He added in his experience, people who get into trouble on or under the water generally fall into one of two broad classes - those who anticipate the risks but just get unlucky, and those who don't bother assessing the risks and rely on good luck to prevent anything going wrong. He has zero doubt which bracket this venture fitted into.

Fwiw - when pressed as to the likely cause and outcome, he said sadly that his belief was the likely cause was an implosive failure of the carbon-fibre hull at the point when contact was first lost. Maybe a more merciful ending than any of the other scenarios.

merlin

AK99 said:

Sesh said:

The whole venture seems to have been built on arrogance. The man in charge with his "safety is for pussies" attitude and a gung-ho approach. Not surprising this has happened. Surely it could have had a tether, an auto resurface function, a tracking beacon, a means of escape on resurfacing and a life raft? The idea that "if something goes wrong we die" is moronic. It should be "if something goes wrong we do this, this, this, we have backup capabilites." There may not be much that could be done in this situation, but the shrug and a cigar posturing is vile.

 I listened to an interesting interview with a retired RN / NATO underwater rescue specialist on the radio this morning, He was scathing about the whole venture. Said not only was the submersible built and being operated in ways that are totally unregulated but that - in his words - there appears to have been no Plan B or backup of any kind to cater for the numerous forseeable ways things could go wrong. No tether/trailing buoy, no duplication of systems onboard, no releasable emergency beacon and myriad other shortfalls.

He added in his experience, people who get into trouble on or under the water generally fall into one of two broad classes - those who anticipate the risks but just get unlucky, and those who don't bother assessing the risks and rely on good luck to prevent anything going wrong. He has zero doubt which bracket this venture fitted into.

Fwiw - when pressed as to the likely cause and outcome, he said sadly that his belief was the likely cause was an implosive failure of the carbon-fibre hull at the point when contact was first lost. Maybe a more merciful ending than any of the other scenarios.

This is all sad but I'm sure they'll be immortalised by receiving a Darwin Award. 

https://darwinawards.com/

LastMantra

Sassafras said:

A way to conserve oxygen would be for one of them to kill the other four.

Very true (already mentioned right enough). 

If I was going on something like that (which I wouldn't) I'd want some gas or morphine or something to put the lights out rather than the unholy primal shit that would probably happen!

I wonder how people behave in such a situation. Not sure I'd want to know though. 

guitars4you

I'm kind of intrigued by the whole 'try and find it' process when they have some form of a guide line 'area' to start of with - Yet MH370 has never been found - Whilst they don't know if/where it when down, such a large plane should be leaving a whole mess of debris, plus was loaded with various sensors be it the black box or the sensors on the RR engines etc - Yet nothing

Offset

Oh dear.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65977432