XL Bully Dogs.........

darthed1981

BillDL said:

This is all nonsense.  As mentioned in this much older comment in a different thread:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3581959/#Comment_3581959

and in the following comment in this thread:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3678109/#Comment_3678109

any vicious dog can easily be controlled by grabbing its "hips" and bending its back legs upwards in a physiotherapy / chiropractic / yoga manipulation.  The person posting that advice has personally seen it in action and used to great effect.

I suspect that this would take an awful lot of training to perfect though, because a dog's hips are behind the dangerous end of the dog 

I'm fairly certain that advice confuses the best way of dealing with an out-of-control dangerous dog (several rounds from a firearm) with trying to entice it to dance a Tango.

TeleMaster

People think that it's easy to just face down a monster dog and stay calm, or do a front flip over it and as above, wheelbarrow it back to its owner. It's bollocks. What happens is you shit yourself and that's the end of it. 

Offset

scrumhalf said:

Okay, I am confronted by one of these savage dogs and have managed to raise its hind legs.

Now what? Wheelbarrow it back to the owner?

It's useful information but it feels like only half of the story. 

If you're standing next to a cliff, I'd suggest dangling it over the edge and letting go.

BillDL

darthed1981 said:

I'm fairly certain that advice confuses the best way of dealing with an out-of-control dangerous dog (several rounds from a firearm) with trying to entice it to dance a Tango.

digitalscream

BillDL said:

I suspect that this would take an awful lot of training to perfect though, because a dog's hips are behind the dangerous end of the dog 

That advice is...pretty dangerous, not least because canine standard practice when fighting is to keep you at the business end. Getting past the toothy end of a dog that's faster than any human and doesn't like you very much...well, that's a big ol' nope from me.

Sassafras

I'd love to see how someone manages to lift a dog's backend while its frontend is clamped round that person's throat and its back legs are ripping away at the chest.

Offset

digitalscream said:

BillDL said:

I suspect that this would take an awful lot of training to perfect though, because a dog's hips are behind the dangerous end of the dog 

That advice is...pretty dangerous, not least because canine standard practice when fighting is to keep you at the business end. Getting past the toothy end of a dog that's faster than any human and doesn't like you very much...well, that's a big ol' nope from me.

Yep - the only circumstance in which it may work would be if there was more than one person present.  And to be honest if my big mixed breed mutt was having a go at someone and I had to pick her up by her hips or hind legs, I'd struggle - she's 36kg.  And when she was younger she was closer to 50kg (arthritis = diet) so I'd have had no chance.

Haych

BillDL said:

.......any vicious dog can easily be controlled by grabbing its "hips" and bending its back legs upwards in a physiotherapy / chiropractic / yoga manipulation.  The person posting that advice has personally seen it in action and used to great effect.

I suspect this was tongue in cheek.

While a 60 pound dog has hold of your forearm and is trying tear it off at the shoulder joint, how exactly is a person supposed to grab it's hips and bend it's back legs upwards?

Even if you're successful, do you have to cuddle and talk to it after, or maybe share a cigarette?

Philly_Q

I have little to say on this topic because I honestly have no idea what the solution to the problem is.  But some of the recent comments from bold FretBoarders about how they personally would deal with a vicious dog attack have reminded me of this:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/251961/crazy-claims/p1

munckee

Haych said:

BillDL said:

.......any vicious dog can easily be controlled by grabbing its "hips" and bending its back legs upwards in a physiotherapy / chiropractic / yoga manipulation.  The person posting that advice has personally seen it in action and used to great effect.

I suspect this was tongue in cheek.

While a 60 pound dog has hold of your forearm and is trying tear it off at the shoulder joint, how exactly is a person supposed to grab it's hips and bend it's back legs upwards?

Even if you're successful, do you have to cuddle and talk to it after, or maybe share a cigarette?

No cuddling, grab it by the hips, stick it in the dogs bottom (to calm it apparently) possibly a good time for a "who's the daddy now" and off you go with no harm to you.

ICBM

I don't think you'd stand a chance with anything less than a decent combat knife, a lot of determination and some luck - and I think you'd still probably get hurt even if you kill it.

I don't think there's a simple solution, certainly not in the short term. Making owners equivalently criminally responsible for whatever the dog does isn't going to stop a dog attacking someone, even if in the long term it deters them from owning one. It would take a long and involved change in the law to bring that about anyway. Banning the breed without an immediate cull isn't going to make them all go away overnight - and even then the least responsible owners would just hide them. Muzzling in public is only a partial solution at best since it doesn't deal with domestic incidents or escapes.

But I do think there's evidence that this breed is unusually and perhaps uniquely dangerous, and I do reluctantly think that a ban does have to be part of the answer.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

I don't think there's a simple solution, certainly not in the short term.

That's the problem - nobody on either side of the political transaction (the people demanding action and the politicians themselves) is looking for anything beyond a short-term solution, when none of the prior short-term solutions have made even the tiniest bit of difference.

Sassafras

Even with a Rambo style knife, it's not going to die fast enough to save you from serious damage. An animal like that wouldn't be easy to kill unless you shot it with a bazooka.

Philly_Q

Oh come on guys, let's stop going on about fighting enormous vicious dogs with combat knives, complex wrestling moves, keys, pointed sticks etc. It's beginning to sound like the macho bullshit mentality of the people who own these fucking monsters.

The truth is we would all be terrified and ripped to pieces in seconds, or at best horribly mutilated and maimed for life.  In that situation none of us would have the presence of mind to fight back even if we could.

ThePrettyDamned

It shouldn't be complicated, right? If I have a dog, whether is 20cm tall or 2m tall, and it attacks someone, I should be prosecuted for the actions of the dog.

So if it is a little spaniel and bites an ankle, drawing blood, it's assault or something. A dog that disables someone or leaves scars, gbh. If someone dies as a result of the dog, it's manslaughter. 

Does it need to consider the breed? What am I missing? 

Sporky

Philly_Q said:

Oh come on guys, let's stop going on about fighting enormous vicious dogs with combat knives, complex wrestling moves, keys, pointed sticks etc. It's beginning to sound like the macho bullshit mentality of the people who own these fucking monsters.

The truth is we would all be terrified and ripped to pieces in seconds, or at best horribly mutilated and maimed for life.  In that situation none of us would have the presence of mind to fight back even if we could.

The only solution is to wear one of those rigid deep-sea diving suits whenever you're out in public.

Or learn MIND BULLETS.

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

Oh come on guys, let's stop going on about fighting enormous vicious dogs with combat knives, complex wrestling moves, keys, pointed sticks etc. It's beginning to sound like the macho bullshit mentality of the people who own these fucking monsters.

The truth is we would all be terrified and ripped to pieces in seconds, or at best horribly mutilated and maimed for life.  In that situation none of us would have the presence of mind to fight back even if we could.

That was my point... the *minimum* you would need to stand any chance at all is a weapon which is itself illegal to carry in public, and you'd probably need to pre-empt the attack and have it in your hand already. So in any realistic circumstances, no.

So the only solution is to get rid of the dogs - the question is how. That's the difficult bit, and I don't see an easy or quick option.

ThePrettyDamned said:

It shouldn't be complicated, right? If I have a dog, whether is 20cm tall or 2m tall, and it attacks someone, I should be prosecuted for the actions of the dog.

So if it is a little spaniel and bites an ankle, drawing blood, it's assault or something. A dog that disables someone or leaves scars, gbh. If someone dies as a result of the dog, it's manslaughter. 

Does it need to consider the breed? What am I missing? 

That's it's reactive - it won't bring back the dead person. You could argue that that sort of penalty will deter people from owning dangerous dogs, but it probably won't - if they don't believe *their* dog is dangerous. In the same way as fairly severe (although in my opinion still not enough) penalties for causing death by dangerous driving doesn't stop some people driving like lunatics - they don't believe it will happen to them.

Kittyfrisk

^ And you thought the dog looked alarming...?

Cranky

darthed1981 said:

BillDL said:

This is all nonsense.  As mentioned in this much older comment in a different thread:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3581959/#Comment_3581959

and in the following comment in this thread:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3678109/#Comment_3678109

any vicious dog can easily be controlled by grabbing its "hips" and bending its back legs upwards in a physiotherapy / chiropractic / yoga manipulation.  The person posting that advice has personally seen it in action and used to great effect.

I suspect that this would take an awful lot of training to perfect though, because a dog's hips are behind the dangerous end of the dog 

I'm fairly certain that advice confuses the best way of dealing with an out-of-control dangerous dog (several rounds from a firearm) with trying to entice it to dance a Tango.

Or, as I originally intended, if you’re there when someone else or something else has been attacked by the dog, you could actually be of service by releasing the dogs jaws fairly quickly.  Obviously the one being attacked won’t be lifting the hind legs, I don’t see the point in being flippant about that.

Also, despite a dog’s power, it can also be fairly easily suffocated with a firm headlock while staying behind/on top of it.  Same with cats (I live in cougar country and have heard tell of it being done by an unarmed hiker).

And there’s always pepper spray.  

I don’t mean any of this to say that it’s no big deal or that these dogs should be allowed.  I was afraid of dogs for a lot of my life and would definitely be afraid to be around a large bully, they are a legitimate public safety issue.  I’m just sharing what I hope is helpful info for those of us composed enough to take action in such circumstances.

Offset

Cranky said:

And there’s always pepper spray.  

That is a VERY good point.