Knopflers Auction Guitar list 31 jan

richardhomer

BobHillman said:

Litterick said:

This is not an auction for the innocent. Newcomers would be competing with dealers who know a lot about auctions and who are bidding against each other. Any lot the newcomer won would be worth less than the hammer price. The dealers will know that when the newcomer attempts to sell his unfortunate purchase.

The estimates are low for good reasons. Here is an explanation of how estimates are calculated. Of particular interest are the following paragraphs:

"The first step in unpacking this process is the core dynamic between consignor and specialist, where the actual negotiation takes place. As it happens, many consignors manifest a pathology that can best be described as a paradoxical interest: They often feel the need to demand the highest estimate possible, on the superficially reasonable supposition that the higher the target range, the higher the sale price. This is a paradoxical interest in the sense that an artificially inflated estimate will often asphyxiate demand, and yield a hammer price that is in fact well below their expectations in the final analysis—or worse, the lot ends up being bought in. As such, it is often the specialist’s primary responsibility to cajole the consignor into accepting the lowest possible estimate, as truly in her self-interest.

That is premised on the imputed behavior of potential bidders, our third agent at this party, whose motivations the auction house specialist will know well. The imputed bidder is often compromised by a paradoxical interest of her own: The lower the estimate, the greater the bargain may seem, but they are often not alone in having the same intuition, and that is precisely how auction specialists generate demand. If you open an auction catalog and the estimate of $10,000–$15,000 seems so incredibly cheap for the Picasso woodcut you always coveted that you immediately call up to register to bid, it is very likely that 30 others responded similarly. Inculcating that demand is an essential part of the pressures to set estimates and, absent any other factors, auction house specialists would set them as low as reasonably possible to stimulate such demand."

Where can I find an english translation of this, please?

It loosely translates to ‘low pricing brings in more buyers to maximise competition’.

Rocker

I don’t understand why some people are prepared to spend ten times the price of a new guitar for a guitar that was played by Mark Knopfler or any other well known musician for that matter. It is only a guitar after all......

WBT2079

Anybody been down to see the collection this weekend? Tempted to pop in have a look while it’s on display.

Jez6345789

I played a couple of those Pensa's at Rudys last year and still fine guitars for upwards of 6k USD I doubt Mr Knopflers are any better or worth anymore. I have never seen the point or value in celebrity-owned guitars, but I am not a collector of anything much.

Lawriejones1

Rocker said:

I don’t understand why some people are prepared to spend ten times the price of a new guitar for a guitar that was played by Mark Knopfler or any other well known musician for that matter. It is only a guitar after all......

Ego.

I chatted with David Pym about this, and he explained that he doesn’t mention any previous owners as this has no bearing on the playability or quality of an instrument.

This is more of a memorabilia auction than a musical instrument one.

Fair play that the cash is going to charity. That’s a lovely thing to do, and on that basis, I hope every lot makes an absolute fortune. 

DavusPG

Litterick said:

This is not an auction for the innocent. Newcomers would be competing with dealers who know a lot about auctions and who are bidding against each other. Any lot the newcomer won would be worth less than the hammer price. The dealers will know that when the newcomer attempts to sell his unfortunate purchase.

These sound like the words of a dealer trying to discourage fans from ramping the prices up! 

"Worth" is down to the buyer, so if the buyer is a lifelong Knopfler fan who wants to own a rare piece of memorablia, then yes that figure will most likely be higher than that of a dealer (who would stop bidding at the point the item is no longer profitable to them anyway) but that doesn't make it an "unfortunate purchase"

The beauty of an auction is that it is for everyone, so rather than these guitars going straight into the hands of high end dealers, or recording studio owners, we all have the opportunity to buy them, dependant of course on what we can afford and are prepared to pay. 

There really isn't a lot to know about auctions either. You set your limit and you stick to it, simple as that, but do allow for the buyers premium (26% on the lots up to £800k) which also gets VAT slapped on top. By my maths it would be an extra £4680 on top of the £15k upper estimate for the Money For Nothing LP. If a Knopfler fan can afford that and feels it's worth it, then good luck to them.  

With bidders worldwide, I agree that many of the lots will sell for a lot more than the estimates, and are likely to be snapped up by dealers and collectors (are JoBo or Slash Knopfler fans?!), but I hope that some items are won by genuine fans. If anyone on here is having a punt on anything, then best of luck to you.

Squareheadedfreak

Damn those dual SLO100's !!!

DavusPG

Lawriejones1 said:

I chatted with David Pym about this, and he explained that he doesn’t mention any previous owners as this has no bearing on the playability or quality of an instrument.

Apart from the 335 on his site that belonged to Eric Johnson ;-)

Lawriejones1

DavusPG said:

Lawriejones1 said:

I chatted with David Pym about this, and he explained that he doesn’t mention any previous owners as this has no bearing on the playability or quality of an instrument.

Apart from the 335 on his site that belonged to Eric Johnson ;-)

I haven’t checked his site for years. Maybe he’s changed his position, it happens!

BobHillman

One that interests me is lot 65 "A solid body guitar...in the manner of a Gibson Flying V", which has a Gibson logo on the headstock - Surely, that's a fake, and they can't sell it?

CaseOfAce

Rocker said:

I don’t understand why some people are prepared to spend ten times the price of a new guitar for a guitar that was played by Mark Knopfler or any other well known musician for that matter. It is only a guitar after all......

My hot take is because the guitars in this auction are gonna be top of the topper most.

Those 2 sig Mark Knopfler Fender strats are gonna be Masterbuilt items along the lines of the 15 or 20 grand strats Clapton takes on the road. Fender weren't about to send him any old rubbish - those are gonna be fine tuned custom shop builds.

The vintage stuff he picked out met his high standards - i.e. it's the good vintage stuff - not some ratty 1950s build that just happens to be old. Whether it's worth the thousands jacked up price because of his name is another matter. Which is all fine and dandy... at the end of the day it's just wood and wire - you're not buying the hands that create the magic.

Knopfler could plug into my rig and my jaw would most probably be on the floor - no money can buy THAT ability - that takes hard work and sweat if not a little talent...

bertie

Lawriejones1 said:

 
Fair play that 25% of the cash is going to charity.

FTFY

Lawriejones1

bertie said:

Lawriejones1 said:

 
Fair play that 25% of the cash is going to charity.

FTFY

Guess it’s better than 0%

Litterick

richardhomer said:

BobHillman said:

Litterick said:

This is not an auction for the innocent. Newcomers would be competing with dealers who know a lot about auctions and who are bidding against each other. Any lot the newcomer won would be worth less than the hammer price. The dealers will know that when the newcomer attempts to sell his unfortunate purchase.

The estimates are low for good reasons. Here is an explanation of how estimates are calculated. Of particular interest are the following paragraphs:

"The first step in unpacking this process is the core dynamic between consignor and specialist, where the actual negotiation takes place. As it happens, many consignors manifest a pathology that can best be described as a paradoxical interest: They often feel the need to demand the highest estimate possible, on the superficially reasonable supposition that the higher the target range, the higher the sale price. This is a paradoxical interest in the sense that an artificially inflated estimate will often asphyxiate demand, and yield a hammer price that is in fact well below their expectations in the final analysis—or worse, the lot ends up being bought in. As such, it is often the specialist’s primary responsibility to cajole the consignor into accepting the lowest possible estimate, as truly in her self-interest.

That is premised on the imputed behavior of potential bidders, our third agent at this party, whose motivations the auction house specialist will know well. The imputed bidder is often compromised by a paradoxical interest of her own: The lower the estimate, the greater the bargain may seem, but they are often not alone in having the same intuition, and that is precisely how auction specialists generate demand. If you open an auction catalog and the estimate of $10,000–$15,000 seems so incredibly cheap for the Picasso woodcut you always coveted that you immediately call up to register to bid, it is very likely that 30 others responded similarly. Inculcating that demand is an essential part of the pressures to set estimates and, absent any other factors, auction house specialists would set them as low as reasonably possible to stimulate such demand."

Where can I find an english translation of this, please?

It loosely translates to ‘low pricing brings in more buyers to maximise competition’.

No. Estimates, not pricing, are set low to stimulate demand.

Litterick

DavusPG said:

Litterick said:

This is not an auction for the innocent. Newcomers would be competing with dealers who know a lot about auctions and who are bidding against each other. Any lot the newcomer won would be worth less than the hammer price. The dealers will know that when the newcomer attempts to sell his unfortunate purchase.

These sound like the words of a dealer trying to discourage fans from ramping the prices up! 

"Worth" is down to the buyer, so if the buyer is a lifelong Knopfler fan who wants to own a rare piece of memorablia, then yes that figure will most likely be higher than that of a dealer (who would stop bidding at the point the item is no longer profitable to them anyway) but that doesn't make it an "unfortunate purchase"

The beauty of an auction is that it is for everyone, so rather than these guitars going straight into the hands of high end dealers, or recording studio owners, we all have the opportunity to buy them, dependant of course on what we can afford and are prepared to pay. 

There really isn't a lot to know about auctions either. You set your limit and you stick to it, simple as that, but do allow for the buyers premium (26% on the lots up to £800k) which also gets VAT slapped on top. By my maths it would be an extra £4680 on top of the £15k upper estimate for the Money For Nothing LP. If a Knopfler fan can afford that and feels it's worth it, then good luck to them.  

With bidders worldwide, I agree that many of the lots will sell for a lot more than the estimates, and are likely to be snapped up by dealers and collectors (are JoBo or Slash Knopfler fans?!), but I hope that some items are won by genuine fans. If anyone on here is having a punt on anything, then best of luck to you.

The rare piece of memorabilia will become an unfortunate purchase when the fan or his heir tries to sell it to the dealers who stopped bidding at the point when it became unprofitable. The beauty of an auction is that it is for everyone but, while the fan wants something to cherish, the market is made by those who bid for profit.

That 15K upper estimate is probably the reserve, the minimum amount Knopfler's people would accept. They will expect much more, as will Christie's, who will take efforts to ensure the right people will bid on the day. Christie's might have arrangements with dealers, such as rebates on the buyer's premium, and incentives such as first-class air travel for the chosen. We do not know what goes on, because Christie's is privately owned. As The Collector noted, Christie's is 'legally allowed to only reveal its final sales to the public. Christie’s has guaranteed minimum prices for pieces through 3rd party agreements, but they aren’t obligated to show these deals to the public.'

There really is a great deal to know about auctions, far more than an amateur could learn. 

bertie

Ive put in an offer on the '59

inthesky729

Really recommend getting down to Christie's to check out the exhibition before Tuesday if you're a Knopfler fan. They've set the place up beautifully - you can get properly up close to just about every guitar except the 59 LP and two 50s ES335, there's a listening room with an incredible Dolby Surround system set-up playing all the hits, and a really cool space dedicated to the Money for Nothing Les Paul. Was suprisingly chill compared to what I've heard of the Gilmour/Clapton exhibitions as well - I guess this has flown under the radar?

rossi

I prefer Bangers and Cash

Voxman

inthesky729 said:

Really recommend getting down to Christie's to check out the exhibition before Tuesday if you're a Knopfler fan. They've set the place up beautifully - you can get properly up close to just about every guitar except the 59 LP and two 50s ES335, there's a listening room with an incredible Dolby Surround system set-up playing all the hits, and a really cool space dedicated to the Money for Nothing Les Paul. Was suprisingly chill compared to what I've heard of the Gilmour/Clapton exhibitions as well - I guess this has flown under the radar?

Been there today with my wife and have registered to bid.  I was chatting to one of the Christie's staff and she very kindly allowed me to sit and strum unplugged MFs iconic Pensa Suhr No1 prototype... I was the envy of everyone there. The action was a little higher than I was expecting, but just to hold this in my hands and finger pick Sultans on it was just very special. 

Needless to say it's an iconic guitar and has had a lot of interest and it could go for 6 figures.  So it's likely well out of my league but I'm still going to bid.  You have to pay 26% Christie's premium plus 20% VAT on the premium, which means an extra 31.2% on top of the hammer price.  And if you win the auction you have to pay for it to be delivered. 

I have got pics of me holding the Pensa Suhr that my wife took but I had to promise not to post these on any social media. I think it will pribably be OK after the auction though.

Some lovely guitars there as you'd expect including some that might surprise eg a Rapier 33 and various Burns guitars. 

BobHillman

What surprised me most about the guitars listed, is that in a lot of cases (i.e. Tiesco, Burns and Watkins), the matching bass is also in the auction. And most are in mint, or very close, condition.