Lab grown meat approved for use in the UK

darthed1981

Gandalph said:

VimFuego said:

darthed1981 said:

Offset said:

VimFuego said:

Adey said:

VimFuego said:

Kurtis said:

I'd imagine it's very unlikely it will have the same nutritional value as real meat. 

what are you basing that on?

That's nearly another...

hahaha, the forums bargain basement troll has surfaced. Was wondering when you'd get triggered, you never disappoint. 

I think that's a bit unfair Vim.  Adey is far more upmarket than that :-)

Yeah there has been some proper bargain-basement trolling in here - Adey is well above that.

He's more like Aldi, but the nice bits of Aldi, like the bakery section.

each to their own of course, but for me he's a gregg's sausage roll of a troll. 

He's not a troll though is he. 

Just because he shakes some of you lot up in the P&E section. Doesn't make him a troll. 

I thought we were doing banter - it's so hard to tell these days...

We need our token right-wingers over in P&E!

monquixote

digitalscream said:

monquixote said:

Hoof said:

If lab grown meat becomes the norm, livestock is eliminated and the cow, pig, sheep, chicken etc become effectively extinct, how will we get products such as leather, eggs, wool, natural fertilizers? The production of meat makes these economically viable.

I think this is a non problem

Leather, maybe. Eggs are a massively important source of protein, and there's no viable substitute in a hell of a lot of foodstuffs.

Natural fertilisers are also an issue, because the fact that they're effectively a byproduct makes crop production viable for those farmers focused on not actively harming the environment they rely on.

I'm not saying there's no solution to the latter, but it would take a lot more work. Eggs...I don't think there is any other option there.

Natural fertiliser is massively damaging to rivers.

digitalscream

VimFuego said:

re the whole processed food being bad, fast eddie has a point there (though this is a point that has already been raised in this thread before he said it, so it's not really his point at all) although it doesn't constitute evidence to support anything he's said (he does seem to struggle with the concept of evidence or proof). It's almost similar to the argument made by vegans about diet, that we should be eating way less of the processed crap and as much food in its natural state as we can. 
Lab grown meat has come about because of market forces, the market demands cheap meat, but the current system cannot hope to provide the quantities demanded, so manufacturers have come up with a solution. I guess another solution, one that I assume fast eddie would be more approving of, is to consume only high quality meat, but in massively lower quantities.
I do recall reading several things about how much healthier our diet was during the war because of rationing, food for thought there maybe...

The problem with the argument is that not all processing is equal, or equally bad. Dried pasta, for example, is a processed food; I'm only mentioning this as an example, but the point is that just saying "processed food is bad" is factually inaccurate. Taking it one step further, saying "this process is bad therefore that newly-invented process must also be bad" is simply false.

Of course, all of that assumes the existence of food as an input to the processing. Lab-grown meat does not have that; it's literally the creation of meat using processes that are analogous to the natural process. It is not, on the face of it, "processed food".

Now, genetically-modified...there's probably an argument there. The interesting possibility is...what if they can now edit the genes to make meat that lasts twice as long before spoiling, which they couldn't do to livestock while still keeping the embryos viable (and maintaining animal welfare standards)?

As for quantity - scaling is one thing that humans, as a species, have proven themselves to absolutely excel at. Once they've figured out how to reliably and safely produce it, scaling it up to population-level should follow in pretty short order.

Kittyfrisk

digitalscream said:

monquixote said:

Hoof said:

If lab grown meat becomes the norm, livestock is eliminated and the cow, pig, sheep, chicken etc become effectively extinct, how will we get products such as leather, eggs, wool, natural fertilizers? The production of meat makes these economically viable.

I think this is a non problem

Leather, maybe. Eggs are a massively important source of protein, and there's no viable substitute in a hell of a lot of foodstuffs.

Natural fertilisers are also an issue, because the fact that they're effectively a byproduct makes crop production viable for those farmers focused on not actively harming the environment they rely on.

I'm not saying there's no solution to the latter, but it would take a lot more work. Eggs...I don't think there is any other option there.

Natural fertilisers have been used in agriculture for millennia but that doesn't make them good, even if they are 'organic'.
As has been mentioned earlier here by @Benm39 ; run-off & pollution is a very real problem regardless of the source.
Regarding leather, there are developments in the same areas of research as cultured meat  https://www.just-style.com/news/3dbt-introduces-lab-grown-sustainable-leather-alternative/

UnclePsychosis

Definitely agree with digi here. Its notable that the "it simply must must be a dead animal" purists don't understand the difference between artifical meat and processed food - they're not necessarily the same thing.

I also wonder how many billions of people the organic-is-the-only-way purists are willing to starve in the interests of humanity moving to their fabled "grass-cow-plate" fantasy? 

VimFuego

"I also wonder how many billions of people the organic-is-the-only-way purists are willing to starve in the interests of humanity moving to their fabled "grass-cow-plate" fantasy? "

it's poor animal husbandry to let your feedstock starve. 

Sporky

digitalscream said:

Eggs are a massively important source of protein, and there's no viable substitute in a hell of a lot of foodstuffs.

Also I don't think egg laying hens tend to get turned into McNuggets, on account of that process tends to significantly reduce their egg output.

Gandalph

darthed1981 said:

I thought we were doing banter - it's so hard to tell these days...We need our token right-wingers over in P&E!

Fair enough.

monquixote

Sporky said:

digitalscream said:

Eggs are a massively important source of protein, and there's no viable substitute in a hell of a lot of foodstuffs.

Also I don't think egg laying hens tend to get turned into McNuggets, on account of that process tends to significantly reduce their egg output.

I think they end up as pet food.

Spent hens are quite tough.

Sporky

I've never fought a spent hen, but will take your word for it.

FastEddie

VimFuego said:

re the whole processed food being bad, fast eddie has a point there (though this is a point that has already been raised in this thread before he said it, so it's not really his point at all) although it doesn't constitute evidence to support anything he's said (he does seem to struggle with the concept of evidence or proof). It's almost similar to the argument made by vegans about diet, that we should be eating way less of the processed crap and as much food in its natural state as we can. 
Lab grown meat has come about because of market forces, the market demands cheap meat, but the current system cannot hope to provide the quantities demanded, so manufacturers have come up with a solution. I guess another solution, one that I assume fast eddie would be more approving of, is to consume only high quality meat, but in massively lower quantities.
I do recall reading several things about how much healthier our diet was during the war because of rationing, food for thought there maybe...

The evidence that the processed diet we have been encouraged to eat is all around you.
Look at how much more disease and tooth decay are prevalent. 

You don't need scientific papers to prove what is before you. At 53 years of age I have seen the expanding waistlines over the years.
You don't need a paper to defend a strongly held opinion, or even one based on the facts one sees every day.

The problem in my mind comes from the top. If we used less land for grain and more for meat we would be in a better position.
Grain is useful but also turned into highly processed and nasty bread products we do not need.

I am more about simple foods. Less processing, more local. Cheap chicken and pork are not sustainable. 

I do know that the global message is wrong and that the heavy but gentle hands which control industry and policy need to be withdrawn.

Less global interference and more honest communication as to how we can eat and be more healthy.

VimFuego

heh, I'm not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding what people are asking of you or you genuinely can't understand when people ask you to support your initial claim.

BillDL

VimFuego said:

it's poor animal husbandry to let your feedstock starve. 

Not to mention sexist and patriarchal 

Jonathangus

8 pages, and no-one's mentioned hide glue.  

Offset

VimFuego said:

each to their own of course, but for me he's a gregg's sausage roll of a troll. 

♪ I'm a troll, sausage roll ♪

Would that be a (literally) full-fat one or the vegan version?

Offset

Sporky said:

I've never fought a spent hen, but will take your word for it.

OK.  Retort of the week by a country mile.

Kittyfrisk

darthed1981 said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Rocker said:

We are carnivores so eating meat is how we evolved to what we are.  I think it might take a thousand years evolution for us to become 100% vegetarians.  

I think you'll find we are omnivores.

I just read quite a lot of this thread and rocker's nonsense statement is nothing on some of the preceding stuff.

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment...

Benm39

Jonathangus said:

8 pages, and no-one's mentioned hide glue.  

Ah, wait what you see what lentil glue can do...

And the finest amps in the world have crystal lettuces 

Benm39

Hmmm, I don't think there is any nutrient in eggs thar isn't available through plant based alternatives... nuts,  pulse and grain have often better protein levels and with added fibre,  and all amino acids are available through combination of same.  Just a habit change really. 

Natural fertilisers are hugely damaging to the environment in the scale now witnessed.. look at the river Wye for example and issues with chicken manure.

Air pollution from ruminant stock levels also hugely problematic,  and over grazing is destroying SSSI eco systems at an alarming rate (* Dartmoor for example).

It's worth remembering that all domesticated livestock are a product of human activity,  rather than something naturally occurring in the wild. 

Adey

I get that processed food is bad for us, but no-one is suggesting that applies to bacon too are they?