The cricket thread

crunchman

pedalo said:

Gotta stop picking these frightened kids who can’t bat. Stick YJB at the top of the order and get after them. It doesn’t look much fun for them these days. 

YJB isn't any better.

There are fundamental problems with the structure of our domestic game, so we just aren't producing the players.  There isn't going to be a quick fix.

sev112

How do zinnia do it then?  They are totally driven by the short form game, but seem to develop test batsmen and bowlers , and wicket keepers, and all rounders 

Teetonetal

Isn't this expected given the preparation the team has had. They have not even been playing cricket where there are 6 balls an over!

scrumhalf

Until we treat red ball cricket as something other than a filler between 87 different varieties of the white ball game we will get wrorse.

There are technical flaws with our batting that a season of proper county championship (like it used to be) would have ironed out.

Stuckfast

Gawd, that was depressing. Whoever is coaching the Indian pace bowlers deserves a pay rise though. Don't think I've ever seen four bowlers all swing the ball both ways with great control.

scrumhalf

Ooh. India lose 4-15. Could get very interesting, especially with Kohli gone. 

Stuckfast

... and KL is dropped.

scrumhalf

It's raining, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is.

Grrr.. 

sixstringsupplies

I predict we'll be 95-5 at the close

scrumhalf

sixstringsupplies said:

I predict we'll be 95-5 at the close

Really? 95?

sixstringsupplies

scrumhalf said:

sixstringsupplies said:

I predict we'll be 95-5 at the close

Really? 95?

At tea there are still a min of 52 overs to be bowled in the day, weather permitting.

If they don't get there, I would long have turned it off and get on with my weekend!

Heartfeltdawn

sev112 said:

How do zinnia do it then?  They are totally driven by the short form game, but seem to develop test batsmen and bowlers , and wicket keepers, and all rounders 

Gonna presume that Zinnia means India

Because they're driven at higher levels by the short form of the game but the basics start much earlier at school and youth level and the longer format is very much still in vogue. Compare the background of Indian players to our young players and start with the wickets they play on right down to school level. The image of the instantly turning dustbowl is erroneous. Many offer the opportunity to bat for a long time. Think of Tendulkar and Kambli's record stand years back. The Harris Shield for U-16 school sides has two-day semi-finals and a three-day final. The Vijay Merchant Trophy for U-16 sides had a schedule like this for Mumbai in 2019: 

https://i.imgur.com/U0WUfTF.png

When did you last se the English first class game look so rational?

Consider how one player currently at Trent Bridge started. First, the top run scorers in the 2000-01 Vijay Merchant Trophy:

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2000-01/IND_LOCAL/U16/MERCHANT/STATS/IND_LOCAL_MERCHANT_AVS_BAT_MOST_RUNS.html

Some of those names at the top: Parthiv Patel, Yusuf Pathan, Dinesh Karthik, Shikhar Dhawan, all well known players with some international success, but look lower. You'll see Pujara down there, a man who knows how to play the long innings. He was playing for Saurasthra U-16 then. One such game was a three-day match against Maharashtra U-16. 

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2000-01/IND_LOCAL/U16/MERCHANT/WEST/SAU-U16_MAHA-U16_MERCHANT-W_11-13DEC2000.html

Pujara was born on Jan 25 1988. This means that he was batting at 3 for Saurashtra U-16 on 11-13 Dec 2000 before he'd turned 13. How many 12 year olds play three-day cricket here? Pujara's early introduction to the longer format is not unusual. Over here, we have people representing counties now in the RL Cup who haven't even got a ton for their league 1st XI (some of the figures on county Academy players are mindboggling to me. Success in private school cricket, limited exposure to adult 1st XI cricket in many cases, and then they struggle in the big league). 

Now if young batsmen are getting a go at three-day cricket and developing the ability to bat in India, then those flatter decks mean shit all for the seamers unless they develop some useful skills and it means a workload for the slow bowlers who may have to do likewise. Good batting tracks do not just develop batsmen: they develop bowlers too. Any fuckwit can bowl on a green damp track in England early season and take wickets: it's a different matter on a Mumbai flattie in the hot sun whatever level you're playing. 

There is so much wrong with our game. The way some leagues have reduced competition is miserable (my old WEPL side used to be 50 overs, 15 overs max per bowler. It's now 45 overs and 9 per bowler, with most sides using six or seven bowlers because the T20 mindset says to rotate bowlers. The 17 year old HFD would have quit the game if that had been the playing conditions back in 1999). The reliance on public school players in some areas is nauseating (take the much-heralded Bunbury Festival for U-15 players. The South West squad for the last festival in 2019 had 14 players in it: one was state school educated). I read people talk of Bumrah had he been English and how he'd have had his action coached out of him. Nah: he simply wouldn't have gotten a chance in the first place. Ultimately my whining means fuck all as the ECB plan involves a few counties going bust and reducing fixtures/congestion/strife down that way. When they do, I hope to fuck the cricketing equivalent of AFC Wimbledon emerges from the ashes. 

sev112

@Heartfeltdawn thanks, very interesting 

scrumhalf

Well, Burns managed to bat through the first fifteen minutes... 

Stuckfast

Heartfeltdawn said:

The reliance on public school players in some areas is nauseating

This x1000.

My eldest is a pretty good cricketer. When he was 7 or 8 he was outstanding, but because we didn't send him to the Perse or the King's School Ely he didn't get to go in the nets every day of the year.

By the time he was 12 or 13 there were quite a few mediocre public school kids who had overtaken him just through being intensively coached. He trialled for the county setup every year and did well, but never got a place. Typically there'd be 16 or 17 kids in the squad of whom maybe 3 were state school educated.

But, out of all the hundreds of kids I saw in the older age groups, I can only think of two who went on to have first-class careers, and they were both state educated.

It's been interesting moving up to Yorkshire. The general standard of cricket is so much higher and more competitive, and much less dependent on private schools. Even small villages in the middle of nowhere will have a Premier League side and a really well kept ground.

crunchman

Why bring back Moeen?  The Indians will bowl short at him, and he will get out.  Since 2018 he has averaged 17.8 in test cricket.  You can't think of him as an allrounder any more.

guitars4you

No Broad and maybe no Anderton

scrumhalf

No Woakes, Stokes, Archer either. I think Woody's back, though.

Whatever became of Jake Ball and Toby Roland Jones? 

guitars4you

guitars4you said:

No Broad and maybe no Anderton

scrumhalf said:

No Woakes, Stokes, Archer either. I think Woody's back, though.

Whatever became of Jake Ball and Toby Roland Jones? 

Forgot about Woakes, Stokes and Archer - So that combination is effectively our 1st choice not available

Stuckfast

Ball was never a Test quality bowler and TRJ has missed the entire season through injury.

I'm glad they've brought Moeen back though. Whatever his faults he's a better batter and bowler than Dom Bess. And Saqib Mahmood is overdue a Test debut. Hope he plays ahead of Overton.