The Rugby Union Thread

lloyd

Leonard always comes across well, one of the few England players of that era I didn't hate! The amount of games our front row won on the hit was superb, as a Welshman who grew up in the 90's I was used to losing firstly, but most of all, having as not pack/scrum, serving it to England was sweet revenge

Gassage

Mike Griffiths was also a very good prop, although I remember Winterbottom pole axing him one year in Cardiff, to the point he didn't get up.

He peeled off a line out- POW!

lloyd

Gassage said:

Mike Griffiths was also a very good prop, although I remember Winterbottom pole axing him one year in Cardiff, to the point he didn't get up.

He peeled off a line out- POW!

The good old days.

lloyd

Sheridan was a prop and only that, 20 years ago that would have been enough, this era? Not so much. He'd never oust Jenkins from a test Lion place and they played in the same era.

koneguitarist

Must admit I agree with @Gassage Melon was a fat flanker, brilliant round the field, but let's be honest, how many other LHP have so many yellows at scrum time.

Great player round the park, great pace but he should have been an impact player 5years ago, Gats rated him for the info that he gave about the game. 

Read a stat on Julian White once, during a lions test, tackles, nil, carries, nil, assists, nil, did nothing apart from win every scrum. Wales have never sorted their set piece out, if I had had the chance to Coach Wales, Julian White or Jason Leonard would have been first on my list as specialist coaches!

lloyd

koneguitarist said:

Must admit I agree with @Gassage Melon was a fat flanker, brilliant round the field, but let's be honest, how many other LHP have so many yellows at scrum time.

Great player round the park, great pace but he should have been an impact player 5years ago, Gats rated him for the info that he gave about the game. 

Read a stat on Julian White once, during a lions test, tackles, nil, carries, nil, assists, nil, did nothing apart from win every scrum. Wales have never sorted their set piece out, if I had had the chance to Coach Wales, Julian White or Jason Leonard would have been first on my list as specialist coaches!

Wales have never sorted their set piece out? Our scrum with Melon and Jones was world beating, the best on the planet. Lineout has been shit ever since I remember.

exocet

lloyd;1106762" said:

koneguitarist said:

Must admit I agree with @Gassage Melon was a fat flanker, brilliant round the field, but let's be honest, how many other LHP have so many yellows at scrum time. Great player round the park, great pace but he should have been an impact player 5years ago, Gats rated him for the info that he gave about the game. Read a stat on Julian White once, during a lions test, tackles, nil, carries, nil, assists, nil, did nothing apart from win every scrum. Wales have never sorted their set piece out, if I had had the chance to Coach Wales, Julian White or Jason Leonard would have been first on my list as specialist coaches!













Wales have never sorted their set piece out? Our scrum with Melon and Jones was world beating, the best on the planet. Lineout has been shit ever since I remember.

Our lineout never recovered from the retirement of Bob Nortster !

exocet

koneguitarist;1106756" said:

Must admit I agree with @Gassage Melon was a fat flanker, brilliant round the field, but let's be honest, how many other LHP have so many yellows at scrum time. Great player round the park, great pace but he should have been an impact player 5years ago, Gats rated him for the info that he gave about the game. Read a stat on Julian White once, during a lions test, tackles, nil, carries, nil, assists, nil, did nothing apart from win every scrum. Wales have never sorted their set piece out, if I had had the chance to Coach Wales, Julian White or Jason Leonard would have been first on my list as specialist coaches!

I understand the criticism of his scrummaging. However, at his best I maintain that he was decent enough in that area. The problem for Wales is that Melon must be at the end of the road and yet I don't think that there is a loose head in Wales who could have filled his boots today.

kjdowd

Gassage;1106701" said:

@lloyd



THe single best performance by a prop I've ever seen in test rugby was Corbisiero in the 3rd 2013 LIons test.



he was incredible. He is just a bloody sick note though.



I think you guys have a future great in Rob Evans. He is special.

Seconded on Corbisiero. You're right though. He sadly joins Tom Rees et al on the list of might have been greats.

koneguitarist

@exocet Jenkins Hibbard and Jones at their best were good, I would hardly call them world beaters though. Adam Jones could never last a match, and neither could Hibbard. 

Jenkins Technique always let him down as a prop, he got away with murder at times, until refs cottoned onto him, since then he has been a liability in the front row. Yesterday he was ok, but was hardly up against a world class prop himself. It's always been known Paul James was the better scrummager but did bugger all round the field and the game as @lloyd and @Gassage says has changed. It's no longer enough to be technically proficient in the scrum, you need to be hitting rucks and tackling. Which is an area Jenkins excels at. 

The bare minimum a team requires is a solid set piece on your ball, and be able to disrupt the opposition on theirs. When was the last time that happened against the big scrummagers like Argentina, England, South Africa, we may get a couple of solid scrums, but as game wears on, our scrum slowly goes to pieces as the opposition exerts control. 

Same with AWJ , great leader, great tackler great everywhere but as a lineout specialist, not in the same league as so many players these days. Only top lineout guy we have is Charteris. 

eSully

@lloyd / @koneguitarist - Not easy viewing for Welsh fans at the moment in the Chiefs game. Currently 14 - 0 to the Chiefs and they've had a try disallowed
:-O

and they've scored again.

lloyd

eSully said:

@lloyd / @koneguitarist - Not easy viewing for Welsh fans at the moment in the Chiefs game. Currently 14 - 0 to the Chiefs and they've had a try disallowed
:-O

and they've scored again.

Shit, thought that was tomorrow! T

hanks for letting me know, will put it on now....Our depth is non-existent so a reaming was always on the cards to be fair.

lloyd

Have to say that our recent defensive issues-we've shipped a lot of tries in the last few games-have to be put at Edwards feet, he's enjoyed the plaudits for when we were awesome, but now we are fucking terrible.

We've missed so many first up tackles and are not dominating the breakdown line, and apart from the last game you can't say it's because we're going for a more attacking/loose gameplan.

eSully

lloyd said:

eSully said:

@lloyd / @koneguitarist - Not easy viewing for Welsh fans at the moment in the Chiefs game. Currently 14 - 0 to the Chiefs and they've had a try disallowed
:-O

and they've scored again.

Shit, thought that was tomorrow! T

hanks for letting me know, will put it on now....Our depth is non-existent so a reaming was always on the cards to be fair.

You were better off missing the first. Very poor Wales performance, 3 tries to Chiefs and one disallowed tells you all you need to know.

lloyd

eSully said:

lloyd said:

eSully said:

@lloyd / @koneguitarist - Not easy viewing for Welsh fans at the moment in the Chiefs game. Currently 14 - 0 to the Chiefs and they've had a try disallowed
:-O

and they've scored again.

Shit, thought that was tomorrow! T

hanks for letting me know, will put it on now....Our depth is non-existent so a reaming was always on the cards to be fair.

You were better off missing the first. Very poor Wales performance, 3 tries to Chiefs and one disallowed tells you all you need to know.

Yeah just got it on on my phone now, I can well imagine what kind of performance we've put in....

Like I say, we've no depth and that's partly down to the player pool being so slim but also down to the fact that we (Gatland) never picks anybody but his favourites, I understand that he's under pressure to win games but we don't see any kind of succession planning, we have a first choice, who plays every game unless injured, and I mean injured or we throw in a guy who has fuck all experience in the wrong game due to injury.

Case in point is North tearing a hammy last Saturday-had to call up Eli Walker and a boy who's just turned 18 a couple weeks ago-to a tour of the best team that ever played this, or any other game....

peteri

lloyd said:

Have to say that our recent defensive issues-we've shipped a lot of tries in the last few games-have to be put at Edwards feet, he's enjoyed the plaudits for when we were awesome, but now we are fucking terrible.

We've missed so many first up tackles and are not dominating the breakdown line, and apart from the last game you can't say it's because we're going for a more attacking/loose gameplan.

I think a lot of players are either tired/unfit/past it - Jamie Roberts slipped off a number of tackles as the game went on over the weekend, you'd never have seen that a year or two ago.

I also think that Edwards has a good defensive system, but it's very much a one trick pony - same thing with Wasps, the game and sides have moved on a bit maybe.

lloyd

peteri said:

lloyd said:

Have to say that our recent defensive issues-we've shipped a lot of tries in the last few games-have to be put at Edwards feet, he's enjoyed the plaudits for when we were awesome, but now we are fucking terrible.

We've missed so many first up tackles and are not dominating the breakdown line, and apart from the last game you can't say it's because we're going for a more attacking/loose gameplan.

I think a lot of players are either tired/unfit/past it - Jamie Roberts slipped off a number of tackles as the game went on over the weekend, you'd never have seen that a year or two ago.

I also think that Edwards has a good defensive system, but it's very much a one trick pony - same thing with Wasps, the game and sides have moved on a bit maybe.

This is massively true, tired players and a system that's been worked out.

I think that a lot of the "golden generation" of players we have had over the last 10 years are getting into the evening of their career and the players coming in aren't nearly as good.

We've got some lean years to endure.

lloyd

Well we made bloody hard work of that didn't we?

eSully

but the thing is @lloyd, you don't have that weak a team out, on paper it doesn't look that bad. Roberts on now, see if the battering ram approach makes any difference

lloyd

Rugby's moved on, we look like dinosaurs in comparison to everyone else and we butcher chances constantly-we just try to bash through then when that doesn't work we panic and end up getting pushed into touch-it happens a lot.

I don;t think the players are that shit, but Gatland's approach is archaic and we've not tried to do anything different since 2011, 5 years is a long time in pro sport, we're still relying on a solid defence, fitness and creating mismatches in midfield after 10-15 phases, look at the WC, all the successful teams based their game on quick ball, offloading and attack.