The Rugby Union Thread

exocet

eSully;1109618" said:

but the thing is @lloyd, you don't have that weak a team out, on paper it doesn't look that bad. Roberts on now, see if the battering ram approach makes any difference

Some of the names are familiar, but I wouldn't call it a team. As Lloyd has stated many times before, Wales have very limited resources which are further "rarified" by the Gatland approach. This system is then ably supported by the regional structure.... perhaps this will be the turning point....it'll be expensive though.

lloyd

That's how you attack, quick, passing before the contact, and you're in....

Wales look for contact to set a ruck up, it's fucking embarrassing, and the biggest worry is that we've all known for a few years we need to refresh the gameplan, unfortunately Gatland does not and while we've been winning Slams and beating some poor 6 Nations teams coached by poor coaches, the media and fans are happy and put no pressure on him or his coaching staff.

Look at the difference Jones has made at England, think how good France would be under a better coaching set up than PSA and the current fuckwit?

lloyd

Bloody embarrassment.

lloyd

Well that's the crowning turd on the shit pile isn't it?

40-7 to a club side, conceding 6 tries, questions need to be asked and by questions, I mean, we need to pay off Gatland, who's contracted until 2019 FFS and get some new blood into the coaching staff.

Slow, one paced, no dynamism, clueless running, shit defence, shit decision making.

I can't think of any positives to take out of that?

joneve

lloyd said:

Well that's the crowning turd on the shit pile isn't it?

40-7 to a club side, conceding 6 tries, questions need to be asked and by questions, I mean, we need to pay off Gatland, who's contracted until 2019 FFS and get some new blood into the coaching staff.

Slow, one paced, no dynamism, clueless running, shit defence, shit decision making.

I can't think of any positives to take out of that?

I watched 10 minutes this morning whilst waiting for the wife to finish faffing....two tries scored in quick succession (nearly 3)....absolute embarrassment (if you're Welsh). Players missing or not, it shouldn't have been that one-sided. 

lloyd

It's a shocker, if you read through mine and Kone's posts over the last few years we have been calling for a change at the top for years, the players aren't top quality but I'd like to see a coach pick a game plan that suits the players available rather than have one plan (that they devised in 2002 with Wasps-14 fucking years ago) and shoe-horn players in...

I'm properly ashamed of that performance. I'm glad I missed the first half and I feel for all the people out there that have travelled, paid good money and for everyone back home who's booked time off work to watch that shite.

lloyd

Gatland in blaming the players non-fucking shocker...He's a twat, he never takes responsibility.

Even if they did fuck up as a coach you need to take the responsibility for bad results.

eSully

exocet said:

eSully;1109618" said:

but the thing is @lloyd, you don't have that weak a team out, on paper it doesn't look that bad. Roberts on now, see if the battering ram approach makes any difference

Some of the names are familiar, but I wouldn't call it a team. As Lloyd has stated many times before, Wales have very limited resources which are further "rarified" by the Gatland approach. This system is then ably supported by the regional structure.... perhaps this will be the turning point....it'll be expensive though.

There are no new caps there though, every player has flirted around the fringes or been in the Wales squad for a while. The problems are starting at the regions though, WRU need to start getting that right. With the exception of the Scarlets it was a pretty poor regional performance in the Pro 12 this year. A tournament Welsh fans are forever complaining about.

lloyd said:

Gatland in blaming the players non-fucking shocker...He's a twat, he never takes responsibility.

Even if they did fuck up as a coach you need to take the responsibility for bad results.

That to me is ridiculous and appalling coaching. You can't put a 33 point loss all on the players. He needs to man up and admit he got it badly wrong.

joneve

lloyd said:

Gatland in blaming the players non-fucking shocker...He's a twat, he never takes responsibility.

Even if they did fuck up as a coach you need to take the responsibility for bad results.

Really? What a bellend. 

Eddie Jones has been an absolute breath of fresh air for England and it's really showing. How he's managing to get the likes of James Haskell to be playing like he's playing is absolutely beyond me. 

lloyd

He basically said that we lost collisions (players at fault)

Missed tackles (players at fault)

Didn't pass when we had a 4 on 1 (players fault)

Called out Tom James on not nailing a pass (players fault)

It's similar every fucking time-it's like he's saying that the gameplan was right, it was just executed badly by the players.

No doubt the players were shit, but to the press you take responsibility and then bollock them behind closed doors, top class coaches give the credit to the players when they win and take the blame when they lose, Gatland does it the other way round.

Pro12 is shit, we're a small country and the player talent base isn't great but we've had an identical coaching team in for 8 years now and they've not moved with the times at all.

We're stuck in the past.

lloyd

joneve said:

lloyd said:

Gatland in blaming the players non-fucking shocker...He's a twat, he never takes responsibility.

Even if they did fuck up as a coach you need to take the responsibility for bad results.

Really? What a bellend. 

Eddie Jones has been an absolute breath of fresh air for England and it's really showing. How he's managing to get the likes of James Haskell to be playing like he's playing is absolutely beyond me. 

In fairness Haskell has had a great season domestically, but yeah Jones deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround in the teams performances.

koneguitarist

Well that was a humbling experiences. I said before the tour started we would not win a game, and it's obvious there is a bit of a disarray in the welsh camp with the amount of tries we are conceding and not scoring. 

I agree with @Lloyd about change of coaching, but not fully, I do not believe Gatland should go, but it's time to bring in new coaches for backs and Fwds alike. Picture George North bursting on the scene flipping ball out of the tackle to JD2 to score against Ireland, that looks to have been coached out of him and rest of team. 

I think Howley is the biggest problem as the backs have no shape or idea what they are doing. Gatland was told as part of his brief to use Welsh coaches and bring them on, but there is only so much any coach can do. Howley and MBryde should go, and I also feel Edwards should go now as the game has changed and RL  defences are being exploited by union fast  paced attacks. 

Our scrum halves are taking way too long to move ball, so defences are constantly organised as we are so predictable and slow in attack. 

Either way I think changes will be made after tour, as the tour is not gonna get any better! 

Gassage

lloyd said:

joneve said:

lloyd said:

Gatland in blaming the players non-fucking shocker...He's a twat, he never takes responsibility.

Even if they did fuck up as a coach you need to take the responsibility for bad results.

Really? What a bellend. 

Eddie Jones has been an absolute breath of fresh air for England and it's really showing. How he's managing to get the likes of James Haskell to be playing like he's playing is absolutely beyond me. 

In fairness Haskell has had a great season domestically, but yeah Jones deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround in the teams performances.

I agree, but I also think he's inheritated a good set of players with some stars emerging

Eng's strength in depth is huge.

If we picked a Lions side tomorrow, 4 out of 6 locks would be English,

In fact few Irish or Scots would be near it

It would be our youngsters and Wales' old guard like AWJ, Not Toby and Quagmire.

lloyd

koneguitarist;1110262" said:

Well that was a humbling experiences. I said before the tour started we would not win a game, and it's obvious there is a bit of a disarray in the welsh camp with the amount of tries we are conceding and not scoring. I agree with @Lloyd about change of coaching, but not fully, I do not believe Gatland should go, but it's time to bring in new coaches for backs and Fwds alike. Picture George North bursting on the scene flipping ball out of the tackle to JD2 to score against Ireland, that looks to have been coached out of him and rest of team. I think Howley is the biggest problem as the backs have no shape or idea what they are doing. Gatland was told as part of his brief to use Welsh coaches and bring them on, but there is only so much any coach can do. Howley and MBryde should go, and I also feel Edwards should go now as the game has changed and RL  defences are being exploited by union fast  paced attacks. Our scrum halves are taking way too long to move ball, so defences are constantly organised as we are so predictable and slow in attack. Either way I think changes will be made after tour, as the tour is not gonna get any better! 

I think if we're going to look at coach changes, Gatland needs to be the one out now.

A couple years/months ago I agreed with you that new coaches need to come in as a minimum, now I think we need a total re-think-it's garlands gameplan and he rules that squad and Welsh rugby like a bad power hungry Caeser.

Nothing happens without him-look at the way he's blamed the players, never the gameplan over the years, it's always the execution.

He picks his favourites regardless of form or injury, that must kill team spirit, never mind competition-Williams is clearly our best FB now, yet is being picked because of injury, he picked Cuthbert through the 6N despite Stevie Wonder being able to tell you he wasn't looking great-how does that affect any other winger in wales knowing that Cuthbert could score 5 own tries in a game and still get picked?

The back up behind isn't great but fuck me, James should have been given the shirt this 6N, he failed to score v Scotland in a tough run in and never got another sniff...

He's not moved on at all since 2003/4 and rugby was still basically amateur even then. Players (Welsh ones) were getting passed on tours.

He's been fantastic, he's put us back on the European map and for that he will be remembered, but there's a time to leave and I think he's outstayed his welcome.

lloyd

Gassage;1110326" said:

lloyd said:



joneve said:



lloyd said:

Gatland in blaming the players non-fucking shocker...He's a twat, he never takes responsibility.

Even if they did fuck up as a coach you need to take the responsibility for bad results.





Really? What a bellend. 

Eddie Jones has been an absolute breath of fresh air for England and it's really showing. How he's managing to get the likes of James Haskell to be playing like he's playing is absolutely beyond me. 





In fairness Haskell has had a great season domestically, but yeah Jones deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround in the teams performances.





I agree, but I also think he's inheritated a good set of players with some stars emerging



Eng's strength in depth is huge.



If we picked a Lions side tomorrow, 4 out of 6 locks would be English,



In fact few Irish or Scots would be near it



It would be our youngsters and Wales' old guard like AWJ, Not Toby and Quagmire.

The emerging stars haven't developed that much over the last 8 months since the WC though....

You've always had the players, since probably 2006/7 but you've employed coaches that weren't up to the job in a crazy loyalty towards having an English coach, had your mob swallowed it's pride and got a foreigner in 10 years ago, you'd have been much more competitive, same goes for France.

Wales and Ireland have benefitted from poor coach selection by France and England, and Wales have benefitted from Irish sticking with their man too.

Not to take anything away as we had/have a great clutch of talented guys, but we won't be seeing the kind of results we enjoyed recently for a while...

lloyd

@koneguitarist

Decent piece on the state of Welsh rugby:

https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/reap-what-you-sow/

lloyd

Well it's Rugby League but I'm posting in here, how awful. poor lad, 17 and dying on a rugby pitch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/36531753

lloyd

Fuck me, wales going well v the baby blacks up in Salford.

8-0 after 10 mins.

Gassage

The latest in bollocks from me and Moodos.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/expert-witness-june-tests-week-two/

lloyd

14-10 at oranges to wales.