PSA: Gibson 2015 deals (again)

4114Effects

See here's what puzzles me. I see 2 or 3 lovely PRS SE soapbar guitars in the classifieds. Good price, nice neck that's not got an extra acre of space either side of the strings, well made and really playable. Why is nobody fawning over these and falling over themselves to buy them? From what I've read in this thread they would easily equal these Gibson Juniors on playability and materials.

Is it just because these juniors say Gibson on the headstock and are made in the USA? If so I don't get it, as the G logo and USA construction seems not to be the mark of quality it once was.

4114Effects

Forgive me if the above sounds argumentative I'm just interested what the driving force behind buying the Juniors was :-)

WezV

The crazy price. I don't mind admitting it. Thankfully I got a very nice guitar for a crazy price

eSully

@4114Effects I'll give you an honest answer. Yes, to an extent it was to do with it being Gibson, I've never owned a Gibson or any high end guitar (I've had an Epiphone SG and Les Paul for 20/10 years respectively) and had been spending weeks debating whether I could justify getting a Studio/Less Plus seeing as the 2015 range had lowered so much in price. I also hadn't played a 2015 so complaints about the neck and g-force concerned me as spending over £600 to buy a guitar blind seemed a big risk. When the LPJ's came up for under £300 with a hardcase I felt that was a price level where I could dip my toe and find out if I liked them. Potentially get a higher end model if I really liked it. So that's why.

I also agree with you regarding quality, my LPJ has a nice deep scratch which without question it left the factory with, looks like it was done with a razor/stanley knife and I seriously doubt whoever did it didn't know they had done it. I have however now been given a partial refund by Amazon because of it so keeping the guitar

4114Effects

WezV said:

The crazy price. I don't mind admitting it. Thankfully I got a very nice guitar for a crazy price

But is it really a crazy price? If nobody was buying them at the original price, isn't the "crazy" price actually what the guitar is worth? It's certainly an interesting situation.

Jookyjr

@4114Effects said:

Forgive me if the above sounds argumentative I'm just interested what the driving force behind buying the Juniors was :-)

Brand values - really funny thing. How many people would have bought the exact same guitar if the name on the top had been 'Vintage'?

Whitecat

4114Effects said:

See here's what puzzles me. I see 2 or 3 lovely PRS SE soapbar guitars in the classifieds. Good price, nice neck that's not got an extra acre of space either side of the strings, well made and really playable. Why is nobody fawning over these and falling over themselves to buy them? From what I've read in this thread they would easily equal these Gibson Juniors on playability and materials.

Is it just because these juniors say Gibson on the headstock and are made in the USA? If so I don't get it, as the G logo and USA construction seems not to be the mark of quality it once was.

The Juniors are also nitro-finished, have arguably better pickups stock, come with a hard case...

4114Effects

Whitecat said:

4114Effects said:

See here's what puzzles me. I see 2 or 3 lovely PRS SE soapbar guitars in the classifieds. Good price, nice neck that's not got an extra acre of space either side of the strings, well made and really playable. Why is nobody fawning over these and falling over themselves to buy them? From what I've read in this thread they would easily equal these Gibson Juniors on playability and materials.

Is it just because these juniors say Gibson on the headstock and are made in the USA? If so I don't get it, as the G logo and USA construction seems not to be the mark of quality it once was.

The Juniors are also nitro-finished, have arguably better pickups stock, come with a hard case...

Fair enough, had't factored that in

welshboyo

4114Effects said:

WezV said:

The crazy price. I don't mind admitting it. Thankfully I got a very nice guitar for a crazy price

But is it really a crazy price? If nobody was buying them at the original price, isn't the "crazy" price actually what the guitar is worth? It's certainly an interesting situation.

What gets me is that these 2015's got an absolute slating on here and other forums when they were full price, mainly due to the features of the 2015 range and many stated that they wouldn't even entertain owning one...

Now all of a sudden they are bargains and the whole issue with neck sizes, brass nut and childs scrawl on the headstock have gone in favour of them being a "Gibson" - a brand which has had QC issues before 2015....

Totally get the pricing here and they were bargains and I am kicking myself for not being awake on Black Friday (I was one of the unfortunate few working on Thursday night to prep for Black Friday!!) and snagging one of these....(I missed a Derek Trucks SG for 700!! which will haunt me for years)

Just can't help thinking though that there are better guitars out there for the price without the Gibson Logo  - and this comes from someone who has at least 2 Gibsons!! and the only real winners are Amazon who have finally shifted the 2015 stock...

underdog

@eSully how much did they refund you out of interest?

@welshboyo I'm not sure of any comparable guitar you could buy for £300 that was USA made (so US hardware and electrics), nitro finished with a good hardcase.

For me I have always wanted a yellow junior, I loved the tuners and the neck on the '15 range, but as a "bedroom guitarist" had no need for a 10th guitar. Once they hit half of the rrp, it became an affordable luxury item.

I wasn't and never have lusted after a PRS SE, or any other guitar. The 2015 guitars will divide opinions you either a) like most of the features b) can live with them for the right price or c) hate them and wouldn't buy no matter what. A lot of people fell in to category b when they went below £300, and who can blame them.

meltedbuzzbox

Whitecat;876949" said:

4114Effects said:

See here's what puzzles me. I see 2 or 3 lovely PRS SE soapbar guitars in the classifieds. Good price, nice neck that's not got an extra acre of space either side of the strings, well made and really playable. Why is nobody fawning over these and falling over themselves to buy them? From what I've read in this thread they would easily equal these Gibson Juniors on playability and materials.



Is it just because these juniors say Gibson on the headstock and are made in the USA? If so I don't get it, as the G logo and USA construction seems not to be the mark of quality it once was.














The Juniors are also nitro-finished, have arguably better pickups stock, come with a hard case...

Yup, all the tone is in the paint

4114Effects

underdog said:

@eSully how much did they refund you out of interest?

@welshboyo I'm not sure of any comparable guitar you could buy for £300 that was USA made (so US hardware and electrics), nitro finished with a good hardcase.

For me I have always wanted a yellow junior, I loved the tuners and the neck on the '15 range, but as a "bedroom guitarist" had no need for a 10th guitar. Once they hit half of the rrp, it became an affordable luxury item.

I wasn't and never have lusted after a PRS SE, or any other guitar. The 2015 guitars will divide opinions you either a) like most of the features b) can live with them for the right price or c) hate them and wouldn't buy no matter what. A lot of people fell in to category b when they went below £300, and who can blame them.

Totally understand your thinking if you've been after one for a while.

What I don't get is why it's better if it's made in the USA? Are USA workers more skilled? The guitars will still have been finished within a set time frame and to a set budget. It's not like the fact that the workers are based in the USA gives them all the time in the world to perfect and finish each instrument. Why should USA workers be any more skilled at finishing an instrument than Japanese or Korean ones?

RaymondLin

4114Effects;876868" said:

See here's what puzzles me. I see 2 or 3 lovely PRS SE soapbar guitars in the classifieds. Good price, nice neck that's not got an extra acre of space either side of the strings, well made and really playable. Why is nobody fawning over these and falling over themselves to buy them? From what I've read in this thread they would easily equal these Gibson Juniors on playability and materials.

Is it just because these juniors say Gibson on the headstock and are made in the USA? If so I don't get it, as the G logo and USA construction seems not to be the mark of quality it once was.

Yup, like it or not, Gibson still holds that place in people's minds. That they have mojo. It is that headstock, especially when it goes with their classic shape. The inherent urge to have one of their guitars is just undeniable and willing to forgive the shortcomings.

I personally still can't bring myself to do it, the only one I would get is the CM because that is the only one out of the 2015 range without the brass nut and wide neck. First thing I would do is put normal tuners on, put some P90 or add a PAF humbucker with coil tap on it. Will take it to a tech for that along with a set up.

£330 for guitar
£95 for set up including fret dress
£5 for new strings
£100 for pickups
£100 for new tuners and coil tap wiring?

But then it becomes a £600 guitar……hmmm I've been here before toying with a PRS SE.

Sync

Everyone has a price. Amazon found it.

My biggest regret is not ordering a DC and Jr as well as my standard at those prices.

WezV

4114Effects said:

WezV said:

The crazy price. I don't mind admitting it. Thankfully I got a very nice guitar for a crazy price

But is it really a crazy price? If nobody was buying them at the original price, isn't the "crazy" price actually what the guitar is worth? It's certainly an interesting situation.

It is a fair point.   I never had an issue with the wide neck originally.  I have built guitars with nuts between 38 and 50mm so I know I can adjust to pretty much anything.

I did have a massive issue with the brass nut.  It works better than I expected but its still not a feature I like.  Hopefully i will get to try the titanium before makign a final decision on its fate

I have followed tronical for about a decade so  don't consider myself to be against the tuners.  Although i did replace a MinE tune last year for someone because they really struggled with it.  I am against them as a standard option, Just not what most people want.  they will stay for a bit, I will give them a fair shot, but I imagine I will replace them eventually.

 

Thats the other thing to consider.  There were risks on these guitars.  The tuners, bridge, nut and pickup  are all questionable design decisions by Gibson.   Paying full RRP and knowing you may want to change them is an expensive game, certainly out of the question for me.  Thats quite a different proposition at the price I did pay

 

Its a crazy price because its cheaper than I could build it for, even though I have more than enough free mahogany to make a good start.  I don't care that you can get a decent PRS  SE for similar money. They do very little for me, but I have a soft spot for juniors.   When was the last time you could buy a gloss finished gibson for under £500 

 

 

 

Its also a crazy price because I could sell it for exactly what I paid in a second.   How many time can you say that on the purchase of a new guitar?

 

 

4114Effects

Its also a crazy price because I could sell it for exactly what I paid in a second.   How many time can you say that on the purchase of a new guitar?

 

But could you? If you popped it in the classifieds in a week or so, wouldn't you just get a whole host of people saying "Hey, I know you bought that new for £285, you can't sell it second hand for the same price"?

underdog

4114Effects;877053" said:

underdog said:

@eSully how much did they refund you out of interest?



@welshboyo I'm not sure of any comparable guitar you could buy for £300 that was USA made (so US hardware and electrics), nitro finished with a good hardcase.



For me I have always wanted a yellow junior, I loved the tuners and the neck on the '15 range, but as a "bedroom guitarist" had no need for a 10th guitar. Once they hit half of the rrp, it became an affordable luxury item.



I wasn't and never have lusted after a PRS SE, or any other guitar. The 2015 guitars will divide opinions you either a) like most of the features b) can live with them for the right price or c) hate them and wouldn't buy no matter what. A lot of people fell in to category b when they went below £300, and who can blame them.





Totally understand your thinking if you've been after one for a while.

What I don't get is why it's better if it's made in the USA? Are USA workers more skilled? The guitars will still have been finished within a set time frame and to a set budget. It's not like the fact that the workers are based in the USA gives them all the time in the world to perfect and finish each instrument. Why should USA workers be any more skilled at finishing an instrument than Japanese or Korean ones?

It's not better, it's more expensive, so a Gibson at £300 is more of a bargain than an SE at the same money. It is there for one desirable (if that's right or not is irrelevant).

I'm one of those that if I want a Les Paul, then I want a Gibson, as it's a real one, where as a greco is a copy. I want my telecaster to have fender on it, my 335 to have Gibson etc

4114Effects

underdog said:

4114Effects;877053" said:

underdog said:

@eSully how much did they refund you out of interest?



@welshboyo I'm not sure of any comparable guitar you could buy for £300 that was USA made (so US hardware and electrics), nitro finished with a good hardcase.



For me I have always wanted a yellow junior, I loved the tuners and the neck on the '15 range, but as a "bedroom guitarist" had no need for a 10th guitar. Once they hit half of the rrp, it became an affordable luxury item.



I wasn't and never have lusted after a PRS SE, or any other guitar. The 2015 guitars will divide opinions you either a) like most of the features b) can live with them for the right price or c) hate them and wouldn't buy no matter what. A lot of people fell in to category b when they went below £300, and who can blame them.





Totally understand your thinking if you've been after one for a while.

What I don't get is why it's better if it's made in the USA? Are USA workers more skilled? The guitars will still have been finished within a set time frame and to a set budget. It's not like the fact that the workers are based in the USA gives them all the time in the world to perfect and finish each instrument. Why should USA workers be any more skilled at finishing an instrument than Japanese or Korean ones?

It's not better, it's more expensive, so a Gibson at £300 is more of a bargain than an SE at the same money. It is there for one desirable (if that's right or not is irrelevant).

I'm one of those that if I want a Les Paul, then I want a Gibson, as it's a real one, where as a greco is a copy. I want my telecaster to have fender on it, my 335 to have Gibson etc

Yeah I get that. Something just looks right about Gibson and Fender on the head stocks. I'm just playing devils advocate I guess.

TTony

RaymondLin said:

 the only one I would get is the CM because that is the only one out of the 2015 range without the brass nut and wide neck. First thing I would do is put normal tuners on, put some P90 or add a PAF humbucker with coil tap on it. Will take it to a tech for that along with a set up.

£330 for guitar
£95 for set up including fret dress
£5 for new strings
£100 for pickups
£100 for new tuners and coil tap wiring?

But then it becomes a £600 guitar……hmmm I've been here before toying with a PRS SE.

Speaking as the happy owner of a BF CM ...

- it's pretty well set-up out of the box.  Doesn't need a fret-dress, and barely needs any truss rod / action tweaking.  Happy.

- pickups is a fair point, but that's optional rather than essential and £60 rather than £100 for something decent from Oil City.

- new tuners why?  The g-force are working fine so far and if you want to coil tap the new p'up, then that's a £5 pot and 5mins with the soldering iron.

So rather than >£600, it's a <£400 guitar for me

But ultimately, if think you'll need to spend c£300 making into a guitar that you'd play, then it's not the right guitar for you to buy.

It'll be my "car boot" guitar - ie it'll be what I chuck in the boot of the car when I'm going away for a few days and want something to noodle on in the hotel room evenings, and for £329, I'm more than happy.

Whitecat

meltedbuzzbox said:

Whitecat;876949" said:

4114Effects said:

See here's what puzzles me. I see 2 or 3 lovely PRS SE soapbar guitars in the classifieds. Good price, nice neck that's not got an extra acre of space either side of the strings, well made and really playable. Why is nobody fawning over these and falling over themselves to buy them? From what I've read in this thread they would easily equal these Gibson Juniors on playability and materials.



Is it just because these juniors say Gibson on the headstock and are made in the USA? If so I don't get it, as the G logo and USA construction seems not to be the mark of quality it once was.














The Juniors are also nitro-finished, have arguably better pickups stock, come with a hard case...

Yup, all the tone is in the paint

The finish has nothing to to with tone IMO, and everything to do with feel.