Any Motörbike riders here?

AK99

p90fool said:

I've been putting a lot of miles on my original old scruff and the Johnny Cash bike this spring, successfully avoiding almost all other people. 

Those are wonderful old machines
Sorry if I missed it upthread or somewhere else - but can I ask what they are ?

Dominic

Haych said:

Still enjoying this since I passed my test last year, it's an absolutely wonderful bike - I can say that since the only thing I have to compare it with is the Suzuki SV650 I used at the riding school, which I didn't like very much!  

Other than that I'm just really enjoying it, makes me smile every time I get on it.  Managed to win a genuine BMW top case for it from evil bay last week, recoded the lock to match my key so I now have a full set of luggage.  I think I need to talk to Dave (my biking buddy) about a few rides further afield.

it's a great engine ....I spent a year buzzing round on an R9T 
Gotta lose all that bloody luggage tho' ........I know it's so practical and compulsory for touring but it just spoils the line of any bike

Haych

Oh the luggage is rarely on the bike at all. It lives in the shed unless it’s needed. I agree, practical when needed otherwise it just makes the bike look bloated and ugly. 

AK99

I know there's a few on here who know their Harleys. I've a question I was hoping somebody might be able to give me a steer on ?

I've had 3 of them at various times - the old Ironhead 1000cc Sporster, a 1340 Dynaglide, and an 1130cc VRod. The Sportster was a decent bike, and the engine on the Vrod was - imho - by far and away one of the best engine designs ever to come out of <ilwaukee (or Stuttgart, depending on who you believe )

I hada bit of a love-hate relationship with the 1340 engine in the Dynaglide: Loved the rumble the torque and the looks, but just coud not live with the vibration - especially on mine, where it seemed to kick in with a vengeance at 3800rpm ish - between c. 55-60mph in top. Spent a fortune on new engine mounts and a couple of trips to the main dealers, but all to no avail, and was despatched with my tail between my legs and the old TADTS ("I'm afraid they all do that sir - it's a Harley after all").

Despite that, I do still have a hankering for another Big Twin.

I was wondering if anybody knows Harleys well enough to give me a steer - are all of the Big Twin engines as bad, or are there any of the later ones which aren't just as agricultural as the original 1340 Evo ?

p90fool

The Dynaglide rubber mount system was never as good as its predecessor the FXR, it was a serious compromise for the sake of looks.

Later Twin Cams tend to be smoother, and have different balance shaft arrangements depending on whether they're rigidly mounted in a Softail frame or in a rubber mount.

All I can say is you'll need to try whatever is in your budget, but I've never owned one with annoying or intrusive vibes. I've had Japanese fours with really annoying buzzes at cruising speeds, but all my Harleys ranging from 1958 to 2010 have been fine, even the Ironhead which used to rattle my sunglasses down the bridge of my nose on tickover. 

roundthebend

@AK99 what counts as a Big Twin?
I ride a Triumph T120 (2018) and would say it is super smooth. Probably doesn't quite have the rumble and gurgle you want, it suits me.

Dominic

Harley owner since 1978
@p90fool .....Iknow you were a Harley Tech at one time and your wife was an instructor at Rider's Edge so I think your opinion is paramount.
I have either owned/ridden or built every Harley since my first Ironhead Sportster ( I do still have some teeth left )
I had the third Evo Softail that Fred Warr got his hands on back in '84 in that backstreet corner shop with 2 bikes on display !
Magical days ......he was delightfully miserable and ignored anybody who had any kind of query or wanted to actually buy a bike  !...........I did love my Evo Softail and did over 40,000 miles in 2 years on it.
The later twin Cams with the counterbalance were a massive improvement but ride very differently in a softail frame but as P90 says the rubber mount Dynas and Glides are different.
Gearboxes are an issue too ......the vibration is part of the twin experience whether it's Ducati,Guzzi or Harley.Nothing feels as visceral and aggressive / vibration prone as a 2018 Ducati 1200 Streetfighter ......it's an animal ,more so than early Superdukes but the raw power is part of the experience........the Pannigale V4 Streetfighter is 208bhp but much more tame .
You either like that or you don't in which case smooth out with the new Goldwing 'bagger',ahem, it's a straight 6 and as smooth as silk like the BMW K1600 B .....quick,smooth,fast handles surprisingly well, civilised and boring as Fuck.
The Hog needs that 6th gear badly whether it's 1450 or the later upsizes.....the Evo was a great engine but 5 gears made it hard work and laboured. You will find on any Harley (or other twin ) ,but especially the Milwaukee Iron that there is a certain sweet spot,just like an amp,where the pobbling twin seems to beat in rythmn with your heart and you just bobble along in a gentle and smooth harmony........somewhere between 61mph (on a 5 speed) and 67 mph on a six speed .
 I have had big Screaming Eagle 1800 engines and the sweet spot is still the same although they run so hot you never want a Faired Glide with that engine unless you want to cook your legs.
The Milwaukee engine in it's latest guise is a good engine but it's a bit soulless and the 2018/19 models were fault prone.
Depending on what kind of riding you do ......the perfect Harley is probably a Road King if you really want to get out and about and put miles on it ......any one from 2011 onwards after they re-engineered the torsional stiffness of the frame which was a death trap on a fast long sweeper until then (see Truetrack mods )..........if you just want to pose down the pub or have a Sunday ride out get a softail .If you are short /smaller framed a 48 Sportster with a decent induction and exhaust system will do you fine and they ride quite well but not as good as a Dyna .
Whatever posessed you to get a V rod ?

AK99

Thanks guys for the replies. 

@Dominic - I bought the Vrod cheaply off a Polish chap who had been working here and was heading back home. Had read a lot about the engine development and wanted to try one. Have to say I loved it. Mine was the one with the mid-mounted pegs. I always liked the raked out drag-bike look of the thing. Drove it down to the Pyrenees and over to the East Coast of Spain with the brother on his VFR.


Good fun, and not too sedate either - he managed to boil the brake fluid on the VFR at one stage Even did a track day on it, much to the consternation and amusement of the scrutineer and on-track marshalls. The things handle reasonably well for such a heavy bike, and the engine was genuinely every bit as good as it was talked up to be. I stupidly bowed to pressure and nagging from my brother and other assorted mates in the end alas, and sold it for a 675 Daytona. 

Did a biggish roundtrip on the 675 over a couple of days not so long ago there, and realised (surprisingly enough) it's not what you might call the 'ideal Tourer'. In terms of riding, I mostly like going out for a fairly decent blast for an hour or so round the curvier stuff here when it's dry (wuss), but have a hankering for some more longer distance stuff. Current thinking is hold on to the triple as a keeper, and get something slightly more sensible/ergonomic for general weekend running round and  the odd longer trips. I want something with a bit of character though. 

Have been looking at an '84 FRXS locally -  but it's got forward pegs (and its expensive to try to convert them back). Looked at a few videos of them online and noticed despite the rubber mounting, the bike seems to vibrate every bit as much as my old Dyna - hence the concern.

A Softtail with the later balanced engine - or indeed, a decent big non sports-bike shaped Ducati as suggested might well be worth a look. I actually had one of the last of the air-cooled 900SS from when Cagiva owned them, and despite the awful ergonomics (and turning circle,) it had a cracking engine with a wonderful bellow and truckload of character. Hadn't considered either, but think I should definitely add both to the shortlist, and see what's out there.

Dominic

In engineering terms the Vrod was a good bike -I rode a Friend's Night Rod for a day in France and was very comfortable although what I find unappealing is that it isn't a trad Harley,it's not a sportbike and it's not a Tourer although I have to bow to you for giving one a blast on a circuit.
 The Only bike that has the performance,comfort and sports bike / cruiser balance right is a Ducati Diavel which is still very competent in the twisties or on a circuit.Some of the earlier ones are reasonably priced now......incredible performance and so comfortable too.The only Dukes of that Cagiva era that I have had were an 888 and 916 ;both were terribly unreliable and for me at over 6' and 15stone the 916 was impossible after a 30 minute squirt......just too compromised even for small light people.
 '84 FRXS is probably not the most reliable thing but nice and honest ;what have you got against forward pegs ? It's a Harley  .
They are actually very comfortable once you have done 300 miles you get used to them provided it hasn't got slammed drag bars so you are folded up like a hairpin.......hasn't the FRXS got mini-apes ( 6 inch rise )anyway ?

hywelg

Dominic said:

 The Only bike that has the performance,comfort and sports bike / cruiser balance right is a Ducati Diavel which is still very competent in the twisties or on a circuit.

p90fool

@AK99 well done attempting a long ride on a 675 Daytona, I had one for a while and although it was great fun it was slower than a Bandit on a bumpy B-road as the forks were way too stiff. 

A little jewel of a bike but definitely only suitable for limited uses. 

AK99

* Slower than a Bandit on a B road has a great ring to it. If I ever get rid of it I'll use that .. 

A friend has a Diavel- the blacked out one (Carbon?) with an Akra tailpipe which is about the same size (and just about as effective) as an empty beer can. Loud, but goes well, and has a decent riding position. His has the mid-pegs - the Nightrod variant of the Diavel range. A fine bike actually, and one I'd initially dismissed as Ducati's attempt at a VRod - or did until he told me it has the same engine as the 1198.

Had a trawl through the classifieds again this morning here and spotted a few Indians starting to come onto the used market, and even one Victory. I had a quick spin on the entry level Indian Scout a while back and remember thinking it felt much more like a Virago than a Harley - a bit too civilised perhaps.

Have you guys any experience with or thoughts on the offerings from the newer V-twin manufacturers ?

Dominic

hywelg said:

Dominic said:

 The Only bike that has the performance,comfort and sports bike / cruiser balance right is a Ducati Diavel which is still very competent in the twisties or on a circuit.

I know , I have had a blast on one but despite the wonderful torque it falls between 2 stalls .......it's too exposed to be a great long hauler ( a screen spoils the vibe ) and just too mighty to be fun in the twisties
- You could take a gun to a knife fight and win but you can't haul around a Field Howitzer

p90fool

AK99 said:

* Slower than a Bandit on a B road has a great ring to it. If I ever get rid of it I'll use that .. 

A friend has a Diavel- the blacked out one (Carbon?) with an Akra tailpipe which is about the same size (and just about as effective) as an empty beer can. Loud, but goes well, and has a decent riding position. His has the mid-pegs - the Nightrod variant of the Diavel range. A fine bike actually, and one I'd initially dismissed as Ducati's attempt at a VRod - or did until he told me it has the same engine as the 1198.

Had a trawl through the classifieds again this morning here and spotted a few Indians starting to come onto the used market, and even one Victory. I had a quick spin on the entry level Indian Scout a while back and remember thinking it felt much more like a Virago than a Harley - a bit too civilised perhaps.

Have you guys any experience with or thoughts on the offerings from the newer V-twin manufacturers ?

Well maybe that's a tad unfair, but I had no confidence in the front end no matter how I adjusted it or how many long phone calls I had with Triumph, though it was exceptional on smoother roads.

They look fabulous though, guy I sold it to just put it in his dining room under spotlights.

I've ridden a few Victorys and found them dull to be honest, giving the impression of too-light flywheels (your Virago analogy works here too), and they look like someone who has no interest in motorcycles has tried to draw a Harley from memory.

I've never had any interest in a new "Indian" as I've never been able to keep track of who has bought the name this year and cobbled a styling disaster around an S&S engine. 
They may be better than that now but they're still one of those here today, gone tomorrow branding exercises I couldn't imagine investing twenty grand in. 

Dominic

"Cobbled a styling disaster around an S and S Engine " ..........best description ever of an Indian
could have been worse tho'......substitute S&S for Ultima

Moe_Zambeek

Victory's are very odd looking - the styling shows it's age, being rooted to some extent in the same period that birthed OCC and the like, but the later, more stripped down ones like the Judge and Hammer are pretty decent. Handle OK, decent motors, seem reliable and also seem to be holding their money second hand.

I don't really like the newer Indian styling other than the FTR and the Springfield Dark Horse, but I know that there are a lot of converts from Harley to Indian these days and the people I know who have them are very happy. I've never been convinced to try one yet though; bit pointless as I wouldn't buy one. 

Polaris have owned Indian for what, a decade now? The engines have been in-house for almost all of that time and are well regarded, and the styling has resolved into a cohesive brand look. The authenticity may be questionable but they're still made in the good ole USA, unlike a lot of new HDs which are now made in Malaysia (I think) for the European market.

I've only ever tried 2 Harleys - a Road or Dyna Glide from the late 90s - a slow steering, hopeless braking, underpowered, over heavy abomination - and a 1st gen VRod - great engine, torturous riding position, 'interesting' styling. I just have never felt the need to investigate further. I did also try a Buell, whatever the model with the perimeter frame was, and it was a lot of fun.

Personally I'd rather have a Guzzi than any Harley or Indian, and there's loads of good condition California's or T3s around if you want a cruiser-y look. 8k will even get you one of the more recent Cali 1400s. An older Cali has oodles of aftermarket support, once sorted they are exceptionally reliable and even the older ones handle and stop exceptionally well. 

AK99

p90fool said:

Well maybe that's a tad unfair, but I had no confidence in the front end no matter how I adjusted it or how many long phone calls I had with Triumph, though it was exceptional on smoother roads.

They look fabulous though, guy I sold it to just put it in his dining room under spotlights.

Yeah they're a handsome bike - 748/916 level looks, which I think is no bad thing at all

Re the handling, if it  was an early one (Gen 1 - with the brown/gray engine casings instead of the later black ones on the Gen 2) it might have been down to the rear shock perhaps, showing up at the front as it sometimes can ?

I've had mine up a couple of times in the shop with a chap locally who trained with Ohlins, and worked with a couple of the WSB teams at one stage.  He also has one of the ex Moto 2 Triumph bikes with a 675 road engine fitted into it as a track bike which he uses  on his days off - so knows the ins and outs of them fairly well. Got him to rebuild the forks and set the suspension up for my weight. He says the front forks aren't too bad - but the rear shock is a bit of a budget item, and nigh on impossible to set up right. He says one click on the rebound takes it from what he feels is underdamped to overdamped, without ever being able to find a sweet spot in between. Recommends rebuilding with different valving to bring it up to the spec of the proper 'non-budget' Ohlins units.

Probably not an issue where it is now in the lad's sitting room - but I thought I'd share anyway

AK99

Moe_Zambeek said:

Personally I'd rather have a Guzzi than any Harley or Indian, and there's loads of good condition California's or T3s around if you want a cruiser-y look. 8k will even get you one of the more recent Cali 1400s. An older Cali has oodles of aftermarket support, once sorted they are exceptionally reliable and even the older ones handle and stop exceptionally well. 

The Guzzis might be a good call. Last one I saw was a Griso sitting in another mechanic's shop, with him calling down many many blessings on Italian electrics and Italian electrical component manufacturing supply chains.

Was always a big fan of the later square-finned (Mk2?) LeMans models mind you, but couldn't afford one as a hapless youth. So I bought a completely and utterly knackered V50 at the time instead. (Still have the tank somewhere). Guzzi definitely nailed the long low look with the big LeMans. They can turn out some decent models. Haven't ridden one of any kind  in donkeys years, but might see if there's any dealers on the island here with a demo or used model that could be prised out for a spin for half an hour.

edit: just had a quick google there: The 1100 Californias are gak, but the 1400 is a handsome brute for sure :

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202105182794704?advertising-location=at_bikes&amp;sort=price-asc&amp;radius=1500&amp;postcode=bt414ay&amp;make=MOTO GUZZI&amp;include-delivery-option=on&amp;year-to=2021&amp;page=5#modal-content

AK99

Thanks for all the feedback and input btw chaps - all duly noted and very much appreciated.

guitargeek62

How’s everyone’s summer riding been going?

I’m just setting off to the Overland Event in Oxf. as part of the Mental Health Motorbike team, see you there if you’re going!