24hrs later, It strikes me that ...

mellowsun

TTony said:

Much of that was perpetuated and/or encouraged by those speaking for the campaigns and the media.

I don't think you can blame the population for holding uninformed views when they've been deliberately misled by people who should know a whole lot better.

The implications of the result were made clear over and over by Remain. That this was not a game, not a protest vote.

TTony

mellowsun said:

The implications of the result were made clear over and over by Remain. That this was not a game, not a protest vote.

Come on - both sides were guilty of ridiculous claims about the implications of choosing the "wrong" option.

The relentless torrent of fantastical scare stories completely undermined their credibility.  You can't say completely daft things 99% of the time, and then claim surprise that no-one believed you when they ignored the other 1%.

Remember the £30bn punishment budget that would have to happen if we chose to leave?  Sajid Javid as good as admitted that that was pure BS on the Andrew Marr show this morning.

The question was wrong, divisive and - if we learned anything from the Scottish referendum - likely to lead to dissatisfaction whatever the outcome.  There should have been a third option, along the lines of "I don't want to be part of the EU as it's currently headed and instruct my government to go back and negotiate again".  I'd put money on that option ending up as a clear winner.

Compounding the error of getting the question wrong, the way that the options were presented were unworthy of a (primary) school playground or the most blinkered and bigoted football team rivalry.  

I didn't have a particularly high opinion of (most) politicians beforehand, but it's a lot lower now.

mgaw

marantz1300 said:

Cornwall voted leave and are demanding they still receive the £100 million a year the got from the EU.

I rest my case.

as a Cornwall resident i can only wonder at the result down here, if they think that westminster would have financed the wonderful new roads...university campus,etc etc and indeed the fibre to my door which was installed last week they are even madder than i previously thought and that was pretty fucking mad...this whole debacle is not going to go away any time soon and excuse me for being contreversial here but an awful lot of people who may not be well educated and well informed or remotely interested in politics thought this was the moment to fuck the establishment....well bravo all thats going to happen in the new independant britian is they are going to be fucked a lot harder than before

mgaw

Richardj said:

quarky said:

marantz1300 said:

I voted remain.

.....

They think the working class are idiots to be used as they please and have treated us like shit for centuries.

I think the result of the vote proves them right.

You think the working class are idiots?

The working class (is it classist referring to them like that?) are not idiots, but you do have to ask whether the decision was made in a fully informed and rational way.

There does appear to have been an awful lot of either lack of information or sheer ignorance on show in some places.

why dont we just say it as it is....a very large group of otherwise politically inactive morons voted for a fantasy fed to them by an exceptionally cynical elite

camf

Sorry @mgaw. That's going to hurt, for sure.

Heartfeltdawn

mgaw said:

why dont we just say it as it is....a very large group of otherwise politically inactive morons voted for a fantasy fed to them by an exceptionally cynical elite

Not too different to the marketing for boutique Tubescreamers then. 

mgaw

i am sure i am going to get a pounding but theres a truth here....a lot of people in this country arent interested in much beyond reality TV booze fags and gossip

mgaw

Heartfeltdawn said:

mgaw said:

why dont we just say it as it is....a very large group of otherwise politically inactive morons voted for a fantasy fed to them by an exceptionally cynical elite

Not too different to the marketing for boutique Tubescreamers then. 

perhaps but being suckered into spending money on an effects pedal could be construed as less serious than a willful manipulation of many by a few to gain advantage quite probably to the detriment of those suckered.....just like boutique tube screamers

Garthy

mgaw said:

why dont we just say it as it is....a very large group of otherwise politically inactive morons voted for a fantasy fed to them by an exceptionally cynical elite

Rather, two very large groups of otherwise politically inactive morons voted for a fantasy fed to them by exceptionally cynical elites.

Both sides have been diabolical and nobody has the moral high ground here.

mellowsun

TTony said:

The question was wrong, divisive 

I agree that it was. But the question was known months, years in advance. It was hardly as if it was sprung as a complete surprise on polling day.

mgaw

Garthy said:

mgaw said:

why dont we just say it as it is....a very large group of otherwise politically inactive morons voted for a fantasy fed to them by an exceptionally cynical elite

Rather, two very large groups of otherwise politically inactive morons voted for a fantasy fed to them by exceptionally cynical elites.

Both sides have been diabolical and nobody has the moral high ground here.

nothing moral about it, our great nation has cast its vote 

chrispy108

marantz1300 said:

Cornwall voted leave and are demanding they still receive the £100 million a year the got from the EU.

I rest my case.

Do all of Cornwall get together and make one decison about how over half a million people feel about one thing?

Also £100 million is the budget for 10 average sized secondary schools. It really isn't much money in the grand scheme of things.

marantz1300

It is when you don't have it.

bodhi

Interesting articles and opinions:

http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/why-the-article-50-notification-is-important/

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-petition-second-eu-referendum-how-to-get-new-vote-on-uk-membership-a7102646.html

My head hurts.

richardhomer

Emp_Fab;1126571" said:

I've just decided it should be called The Referendumb from now on.  

Wizzes please.  LOL's are also accepted.

Half ironic/simpathy lol awarded along side half genuine lol - hope this is acceptable to you?

ewal

mgaw said:

marantz1300 said:

Cornwall voted leave and are demanding they still receive the £100 million a year the got from the EU.

I rest my case.

as a Cornwall resident i can only wonder at the result down here, if they think that westminster would have financed the wonderful new roads...university campus,etc etc and indeed the fibre to my door which was installed last week they are even madder than i previously thought and that was pretty fucking mad...this whole debacle is not going to go away any time soon and excuse me for being contreversial here but an awful lot of people who may not be well educated and well informed or remotely interested in politics thought this was the moment to fuck the establishment....well bravo all thats going to happen in the new independant britian is they are going to be fucked a lot harder than before

Of course the same applies to the Highlands and Islands and disadvantaged areas in the north-east etc... The Remain campaign got sucked in to project fear mode and let the Leave campaign set the agenda. Why they didn't campaign more positively highlighting things like the European Regional Development Fund is beyond me. Maybe they thought the British electorate were too bigoted or stupid to comprehend ERDF, given that they would have to admit that some Johnny Foreigners also benefit from it...

quarky

ewal said:

Why they didn't campaign more positively highlighting things like the European Regional Development Fund is beyond me. Maybe they thought the British electorate were too bigoted or stupid to comprehend ERDF, given that they would have to admit that some Johnny Foreigners also benefit from it...

So where does the EU get the money for the ERDF from?

ewal

quarky said:

ewal said:

Why they didn't campaign more positively highlighting things like the European Regional Development Fund is beyond me. Maybe they thought the British electorate were too bigoted or stupid to comprehend ERDF, given that they would have to admit that some Johnny Foreigners also benefit from it...

So where does the EU get the money for the ERDF from?

From all the member states of course. And then ERDF is used to re-distribute it, and because it is a regional development fund naturally more goes to the less developed areas and states. I believe in regional policy, however successive UK governments have proved they do not. As such I have absolutely no faith that the UK government will plug the gap. They'll be too busy building all these hospitals they banged on about.

quarky

Right. So we give the EU £X, and then give us back £X minus some. Perhaps that is why remain didn't use it in their campaign, because they knew people would see it for what it is.

Not sure why you are criticising "successive UK governments", are you saying they don't spend on regional development? Or are you complaining that they don't spend the money on regional development that they give to the EU, who then give some back???

I know, why don't you give me £1000. I will give you £800 back, and you can then boast about what a good deal it is?

And the Government didn't boast about building hospitals, the Government supported the remain campaign

ewal

quarky said:

Right. So we give the EU £X, and then give us back £X minus some. Perhaps that is why remain didn't use it in their campaign, because they knew people would see it for what it is.

Not sure why you are criticising "successive UK governments", are you saying they don't spend on regional development? Or are you complaining that they don't spend the money on regional development that they give to the EU, who then give some back???

I know, why don't you give me £1000. I will give you £800 back, and you can then boast about what a good deal it is?

And the Government didn't boast about building hospitals, the Government supported the remain campaign

As you well know that is an overly simplistic analogy. I can't really be bothered re-igniting the Leave vs Remain argument. But generally yes sometimes I don't expect to get everything back that I pay in. I accept that I am relatively wealthy and as such will pay in more than I get out. I also expect part of what I pay in to be spent on the administration of things that are of equal benefit to all parties - call it a service fee if you like. Time will tell I suppose - there are a few people that appear to think that leaving will be a good thing economically, however there are a lot more than think it will not.