That petition...

siremoon

Limehouse_Blues said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Limehouse_Blues said:

All this said, it's politically inconceivable that Parliament and monarch would ignore the result of Thursday's plebiscite. It's now down to our elected representatives and the civil service to secure the best terms of exit. Only (a very long) time will tell whether they manage to do a good job on that score.

They won't ignore it. But that doesn't mean they have to follow it whilst giving the result enough lip service to keep the plebs happy. Just wait until the headlines appear about "EU delays our exit" in the usual tabloids...

I agree that's how they will try to spin it. It seems clear though that the rest of the EU is ready to crack on with this quickly. While it's up to the UK whether or when to invoke Article 50, the government must realise that if its EU interlocutors are already saying "Let's get on with this right now" then the longer they're made to wait, the lower the likelihood of friendly negotiations and a positive settlement for the UK. 

Being cynical I tend to look at it the other way.  I think they want to rush because they fear leaving it will result in a greater realisation of the true implications for the remaining members.  That in turn will lead to enormous pressure from stakeholders in industry and commerce to preserve as much of the trade structure as possible.  That in turn undermines Juncker et al who said we would lose out if we left. 

Ianpdq

Saw this on facebook  Dear remain, voter

I'm sorry you did not get your own way in the EU referendum, don't blame the people who voted to leave!

Blame the 28% of eligible voters who did not bother to turn up

Blame the 232 people who left their ballot paper blank

Blame the 9,084 people who crossed both boxes in protest

Blame the 836 people who added their names to the ballot paper

Blame the 15,207 who voided their vote for other reasons

Leave voters are not selfish, racist, xenophobic, bigoted or stupid.

They voted for our children & grandchildren, they voted for our democracy, they voted for our sovereignty, they voted for our fishermen, they voted for our farmers, they voted for our steel industry, they voted for our NHS, they voted for our schools, they voted for our laws, they voted for our borders, they voted for our economy, they voted for our rights, they voted for our freedom of speech & they voted for a Greater Britain.

They didn't vote for YOU!

shaunm

Axe_meister;1125247" said:

I wonder if the vote should have been weighted by demographic, especially in an aging society with a result than mainly effects the young.

When only 36% the under 25 age group bothered to vote I don't think it's fair to say they have been Poorly treated here. Apathy is their enemy.

Fretwired

Who knows - leaving may turn out to be the right thing to have done.

Limehouse_Blues

Heartfeltdawn said:

Limehouse_Blues said:

I agree that's how they will try to spin it. It seems clear though that the rest of the EU is ready to crack on with this quickly. While it's up to the UK whether or when to invoke Article 50, the government must realise that if its EU interlocutors are already saying "Let's get on with this right now" then the longer they're made to wait, the lower the likelihood of friendly negotiations and a positive settlement for the UK. 

I really think Leave believed they would lose. 

Completely agree. I think the result was a surprise to the leadership of both campaigns.

dindude

TTony said:

That means avoiding all the hyperbole and scare stories and instead having a reasoned debate, presented by reasonable and credible people who know what they're talking about.

But how would you police against this second time around, it's always going to happen. even though I don't agree that it was put to public vote, the voting public do have a responsibility to understand what they are voting for. 

Again, as I said in the other thread, the signs weren't hard to read. When the leave campaign is being headed up by two of the biggest embarrassments in Britsh politics (I wouldn't trust Farage or Johnson to wash my car) surely alarm bells should have rung in people's heads.

thomasross20

Jesus H. Christ will the Remain voters just shut up!! (Not on here, just in general)

BBC News is a disgrace, it's all "oh dear, it shuold have been remain, you naughty LEAVE voters don't know what you're doing, we know what's best, waaah, waaah, let's vote again"

Honestly!

TTony

dindude said:

TTony said:

That means avoiding all the hyperbole and scare stories and instead having a reasoned debate, presented by reasonable and credible people who know what they're talking about.

But how would you police against this second time around, it's always going to happen. 

A clear and concise set of rules;

Rule #1:  DBAD.

And a cooler.  

We'd probably need quite a large cooler.

Sporky

Chalky said:

You're like the kid who loses a game on the pool table and instead of accepting, says "Best of 3?"

I didn't propose another referendum, nor do I support one - you're making  dodgy assumptions and then issuing insults based on those assumptions. As you did in TTony's thread.

And you didn't answer either of my questions. Again. Though at least this time you made up a different question and answered that...

Sporky

thomasross20 said:

Jesus H. Christ will the Remain voters just shut up!! (Not on here, just in general)

You shut up. You have no right to censor or shout down other people just because you don't like what they're saying.

thomasross20

Maybe I'm as bad as them. All I hear is leave voters are evil. Some folk were saying they want the older voters who voted leave to die. And now because they didn't like the answer, they want another vote. Is this Nazi Germany or something!? It's over!! Done. Dusted. Let's get on with life.

Sporky

Where have I said that leave voters are evil? Where have I said that older exiters should die?

Nowhere. Nor have I supported, nor do I support such sentiments.

But you think you can tell me I'm not allowed to express my opinion because of what other people have said?

And the Nazi card - when you're the one trying to suppress disagreement? That's pretty vile, especially as a follow-on to your slave-ship comment the other day.

thomasross20

I never said you did - but other people are. 

I'm not saying you can't express your opinion. I'm just tired of hearing about it (and no, not yours in particular at all - honest(!) - just this whole thing in general). 

And yeah, I can't say who can and can't talk about this or that. 

And similarly, nobody can tell me I can't complain about hearing about it all - double standards if so. I can moan if I want lol. 

Come on, that's a typical lefty tactic - oh, you're so nasty, you mentioned "Nazi" or similar. FAO the mods and everybody else, I'm not trying to stir anything up in that regard, but you seem to be by picking it up. You know I didn't mean anything by it - we've both got a brain. Stop trying to paint me as being some bad guy.

thomasross20

PM'd you.

Fortheloveofguitar

Don't know why the young are moaning that leavers have fucked up their future and we're a load of old racist twats

Yes 76% of 18-24 votes were for remain

But only 36% of the countries 18-24 actually got off there arses and voted

So they clearly weren't that bothered were they. Or couldn't drag themselves away from Big Brother or love island

Sporky

thomasross20 said:

Come on, that's a typical lefty tactic - oh, you're so nasty, you mentioned "Nazi" or similar. 

You're crying foul because I pointed out that comparing remain voters to Nazis is distasteful?

thomasross20

Sporky said:

thomasross20 said:

Come on, that's a typical lefty tactic - oh, you're so nasty, you mentioned "Nazi" or similar. 

You're crying foul because I pointed out that comparing remain voters to Nazis is distasteful?

What about lefties comparing right-wingers to such groups ALL THE TIME?

thomasross20

Sorry I hurt your feelings.

Chalky

Sporky;1125784" said:

Chalky said:

You're like the kid who loses a game on the pool table and instead of accepting, says "Best of 3?"



I didn't propose another referendum, nor do I support one - you're making  dodgy assumptions and then issuing insults based on those assumptions. As you did in TTony's thread.



And you didn't answer either of my questions. Again. Though at least this time you made up a different question and answered that...

Er, I answered both. I expected Remain to win and I wouldn't have questioned it. Why would I?

Would I accept a second referendum? Only if its the same rules as the first, not the rigged version suggested by the petition. But as I explained, if you can have 2 why not 3? What have people learned sincevthe first one? Only that Remainers are terrified people with no faith in their fellow countrymen and a strong dislike of the standard democratic process.

Sporky

Chalky said:

Er, I answered both. I expected Remain to win and I wouldn't have questioned it. Why would I?

Those aren't the questions I asked.

Though I think you're not entirely correct about what people have learned since the first one; there have been a number (I have no idea if it's enough to change the outcome and I'm not suggesting it is or isn't) of people who voted out and now regret it.

And, again, to be clear, I didn't propose and don't support a second referendum (unless the situation and/or question are significantly different), but I'd be intrigued to see if the answer was different the second time even if it was the same question next week.

The reason I say that is that knowing the outcome influences the choice. I use that deliberately sometimes; if I can't decide between options I flip a coin and see if I like the outcome. Where you can  do that safely it's not a bad method.