so ....... are we leaving or not????

historyisjunk

Essentially nothing to do with me, but how about "Fewer is More" ?

Limehouse_Blues

I don't know if this has been posted already but is well worth a read. https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

skankdelvar

.

Limehouse_Blues said:

I don't know if this has been posted already but is well worth a read. https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

The comments are good and show a lawyerly approach to arguing online. For example: 

Having predicted the result of this referendum, I argued that an involvement of parliament, while legally correct and potentially required (noting that the crux of the argument is that article 50 does not allow for withdrawing the withdrawal notice, as it were), and that this, while possibly to be deduced from the text, is not crystal clear. 

To be clear, I am talking about the international law doctrine of estoppel, you f**king c*nt.

Drew_TNBD

hobbio said:

... This is hard, but I'm doing it in those places where I've discussed my position and reasons for voting out.

I was wrong to vote Leave. I still don't want to be so closely integrated that I lose my Britishness, which was my main reason for voting as I did, but on reflection I was wrong to chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

There are lots of people who feel like I do right now. I'm about to take an closer interest in politics, and see if there's some way to get out of this mess that I helped create.

This is hard for me to come to terms with, and not a little humiliating. 

I think we're in the same boat mate. I felt a bit better after admitting that I was wrong too. I've not yet admitted it on Facebook, coz I know I'll just get shit for it - not all my friends even realise I voted leave.

Back on topic, I'm really starting to feel like Article 50 won't be triggered. I don't see anyone having the appetite to actually go through with it, and if there's a General Election called before hand I think whoever campaigns best on a Remain platform will win.

I hope you're right.

Limehouse_Blues

skankdelvar said:

.

Limehouse_Blues said:

I don't know if this has been posted already but is well worth a read. https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

The comments are good and show a lawyerly approach to arguing online. For example: 

Having predicted the result of this referendum, I argued that an involvement of parliament, while legally correct and potentially required (noting that the crux of the argument is that article 50 does not allow for withdrawing the withdrawal notice, as it were), and that this, while possibly to be deduced from the text, is not crystal clear. 

To be clear, I am talking about the international law doctrine of estoppel, you f**king c*nt.

Very ugly. I've not read the comments but thought the post conveyed the importance of Parliament's role well.

skankdelvar

I have deep regrets about what I did. 

I voted Remain but woke up to find my country taken over by whiny, butt-hurt, bad losers who'd love to see everything go totally to shit just so they and their Generation Snowflake friends can feel 'vindicated'.

Wish I'd voted Leave now. :-(

hugbot

octatonic said:

For those that wish to put pressure on their MP to vote it down you can do it fairly easily here:

http://breentry.co.uk

my MP was a brexit campaigner, my constituency voted 60% remain though.

skankdelvar

Limehouse_Blues said:
Very ugly. I've not read the comments but thought the post conveyed the importance of Parliament's role well.

I'm so sorry. That was me re-writing a comment to take the piss out of lawyers. You can probably spot what I added.

Limehouse_Blues

Doh. I actually read the comments and did wonder. Interesting that someone unearthed Salmond's question to Hammond from February. I loathe Salmond but must credit him for that incisive question. Could skewer Hammond in time. One wonders whether the government even took advice on the contitutional question prior to the referendum. What a shambles.

Clarky

bodhi said:

octatonic said:

hobbio said:

... This is hard, but I'm doing it in those places where I've discussed my position and reasons for voting out.

I was wrong to vote Leave. I still don't want to be so closely integrated that I lose my Britishness, which was my main reason for voting as I did, but on reflection I was wrong to chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

There are lots of people who feel like I do right now. I'm about to take an closer interest in politics, and see if there's some way to get out of this mess that I helped create.

This is hard for me to come to terms with, and not a little humiliating. 

Back on topic, I'm really starting to feel like Article 50 won't be triggered. I don't see anyone having the appetite to actually go through with it, and if there's a General Election called before hand I think whoever campaigns best on a Remain platform will win.

I admire you for having to courage to admit it.

Same here.

me too..

Rocker

Does this vote mean that Nigel whatshisname and the other UK MEPs all have to resign their seats?Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain. Are their MEPs also out of a job?

littlegreenman

Oh no. I reckon Nigel will milk his gravy train MEP seat for all it's worth until we leave, just as he has for the last 20 years. Hypocrite.

Fretwired

littlegreenman said:

Oh no. I reckon Nigel will milk his gravy train MEP seat for all it's worth until we leave, just as he has for the last 20 years. Hypocrite.

Why is Farage a hypocrite. It's the last thing I'd say he is ... as he's potentially out of work. The Scottish MEP who gave a speech was totally embarrassing "don't desert Scotland .. I'm Scottish and European" .. cue applause .. he left out the bit about the nasty English and Welsh .. cringe worthy. He's the one wanting to continue the gravy train. The look on the MEP from Lithuania's face said it all.

Nitefly

Ah well, I'm off to Brazil...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36653007

... or maybe not..

exocet

Fretwired;1130768" said:

littlegreenman said:

Oh no. I reckon Nigel will milk his gravy train MEP seat for all it's worth until we leave, just as he has for the last 20 years. Hypocrite.










Why is Farage a hypocrite. It's the last thing I'd say he is ... as he's potentially out of work. The Scottish MEP who gave a speech was totally embarrassing "don't desert Scotland .. I'm Scottish and European" .. cue applause .. he left out the bit about the nasty English and Welsh .. cringe worthy. He's the one wanting to continue the gravy train. The look on the MEP from Lithuania's face said it all.

Farage is able to adopt such a "principled position" because he has money independent of his MEPs salary. I've met him a few times because his daughter is in same school as mine. I used to respect his viewpoint when I first met him 10 years ago but I've grown to despise both his politics and his approach. His smug little englander posturing yesterday was particularly unedifying.

axisus

Fretwired said:

The Scottish MEP who gave a speech was totally embarrassing "don't desert Scotland .. I'm Scottish and European" .. cue applause .. he left out the bit about the nasty English and Welsh .. cringe worthy. He's the one wanting to continue the gravy train. The look on the MEP from Lithuania's face said it all.

I agree, what a pathetic, vomit inducing comment from the brown-tonguing scot. 

Fretwired

exocet said:

Fretwired;1130768" said:

littlegreenman said:

Oh no. I reckon Nigel will milk his gravy train MEP seat for all it's worth until we leave, just as he has for the last 20 years. Hypocrite.










Why is Farage a hypocrite. It's the last thing I'd say he is ... as he's potentially out of work. The Scottish MEP who gave a speech was totally embarrassing "don't desert Scotland .. I'm Scottish and European" .. cue applause .. he left out the bit about the nasty English and Welsh .. cringe worthy. He's the one wanting to continue the gravy train. The look on the MEP from Lithuania's face said it all.

Farage is able to adopt such a "principled position" because he has money independent of his MEPs salary. I've met him a few times because his daughter is in same school as mine. I used to respect his viewpoint when I first met him 10 years ago but I've grown to despise both his politics and his approach. His smug little englander posturing yesterday was particularly unedifying.

By 'work' I wasn't just referring to Brussels. Farage has an ego the size of a planet. Once we're out of the EU he will simply vanish. No TV air time, radio shows or newspaper coverage - that will be tough for a guy like him used to the limelight. He stood for parliament at the height of his fame in what he thought was a safe seat and didn't get elected.

I've never met him and probably wouldn't like him as a person. I have some grudging respect for the guy as he's stuck to his guns throughout all the abuse, death threats and so forth. Too many of our politicians - Cameron I'm talking about you - just tell us what they think we want to hear, lie or talk to us in a condescending manner.

And I suggest people watch the full video. Before he speaks he's accused of being a Nazi and other stuff. It was a charged atmosphere in Brussels. People call him rude. The Dutch MEP was far ruder as was JUnker.

Snap

Fretwired said:

I think we'll be staying. The EU is ratcheting up the pain and we've got no leader - well done Cameron.

Merkel says 'no special deal with the UK' - well have to take a Norway style deal or nothing (big fees, free movement, bound by the rules but get free market access)

The EU and Belgium has set up a group/company to get British companies to relocate to the EU, especially banks. Funds will be available.

Sturgeon is meeting EU leaders on Friday - Junker thinks a way can be found for Scotland to Remain in the EU.

The pound and markets will plunge tomorrow.

Not so sure about that. FTSE is doing rather nicely so far, up 1.67%.

You'd need some steel balls to be a trader atm. Market seems to have a will of its own right now. I thought we'd have seen a drop today too.

So, at present, the impact of our decision in terms of the FTSE and the pound is not as bad as predicted. Very early days but all the same very interesting.

We should never forget that the UK economy is relatively good, especially when compared to the EU nations.

Modulus_Amps

^^ probably all boosted by the USA saying they want a trade deal as soon as we are out the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/684164/Brexit-Barack-Obama-hysteria-US-UK-trade-deal-Norway-option-EU-referendum

digitalscream

Modulus_Amps said:

^^ probably all boosted by the USA saying they want a trade deal as soon as we are out the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/684164/Brexit-Barack-Obama-hysteria-US-UK-trade-deal-Norway-option-EU-referendum

...and the fact that all the backpedalling is nudging people towards the idea that we're not actually going to leave. The bounce-back - assuming it's not a dead-cat bounce - coincided exactly with that turn in the media reports when all the politicians started with the "Oh, hang on a minute...we don't have to do it right now, and we like Europe really...".