so ....... are we leaving or not????

Snap

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Europe is pretty clear it seems.

No rights without obligations.

No taking something out without putting something in.

No cherry picking, no 'cake and eat it'.

Fine .. no BMW's or French cheese ... when money talks, principles take a walk.

Farage on top form ... I'd never vote for him but it's great watching him wind up the overpaid eurocrats and MEPs .. watch the video.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nigel-farage-shares-cosy-embrace-with-jean-claude-juncker/

 I think he's behaving like a cock tbh. He is one smug little chuff. What he's perhaps missing is that whilst other govt ministers are trying to steer a UK beneficial path out of this, he is just making it more difficult with his self satisfied jibes.

Mr Farage - its not all about you, its about every single one of us.

hobbio

paulmapp8306 said:

Referendums are ALWAYS advisory.  Its a means to get the publics actual opinion (rather than polls/surveys).  Doesnt mean they have to follow it.  Given the slim majority, I wouldnt be surprised if we didnt actually leave - and I voted leave.  Would I get upset if we backtracked?  No.  The result was too close to demand it really.   

Does it mean that we should definitely backtrack?  No.  The public spoke, and it is now up to Westmister to decide if - given the split - we as a country can not leave the EU (or probably more likely, if we DIDNT leave, would they be in power next time - thats all mps on in all parties).

 

This needs more wis than I can give it.

octatonic

Snap said:

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Europe is pretty clear it seems.

No rights without obligations.

No taking something out without putting something in.

No cherry picking, no 'cake and eat it'.

Fine .. no BMW's or French cheese ... when money talks, principles take a walk.

Farage on top form ... I'd never vote for him but it's great watching him wind up the overpaid eurocrats and MEPs .. watch the video.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nigel-farage-shares-cosy-embrace-with-jean-claude-juncker/

 I think he's behaving like a cock tbh. He is one smug little chuff. What he's perhaps missing is that whilst other govt ministers are trying to steer a UK beneficial path out of this, he is just making it more difficult with his self satisfied jibes.

Mr Farage - its not all about you, its about every single one of us.

Agree- I was embarrassed for the country.

What a monumental cock.

digitalscream

Snap said:

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Europe is pretty clear it seems.

No rights without obligations.

No taking something out without putting something in.

No cherry picking, no 'cake and eat it'.

Fine .. no BMW's or French cheese ... when money talks, principles take a walk.

Farage on top form ... I'd never vote for him but it's great watching him wind up the overpaid eurocrats and MEPs .. watch the video.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nigel-farage-shares-cosy-embrace-with-jean-claude-juncker/

 I think he's behaving like a cock tbh. He is one smug little chuff. What he's perhaps missing is that whilst other govt ministers are trying to steer a UK beneficial path out of this, he is just making it more difficult with his self satisfied jibes.

Mr Farage - its not all about you, its about every single one of us.

Of course he is - he's been fighting to get out of Europe for 25 years, but I don't think anybody seriously believed that he had any idea of what to do if he got his wish. All he can do is act like a smug idiot, because that's all he's got left.

octatonic

digitalscream said:

Snap said:

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Europe is pretty clear it seems.

No rights without obligations.

No taking something out without putting something in.

No cherry picking, no 'cake and eat it'.

Fine .. no BMW's or French cheese ... when money talks, principles take a walk.

Farage on top form ... I'd never vote for him but it's great watching him wind up the overpaid eurocrats and MEPs .. watch the video.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nigel-farage-shares-cosy-embrace-with-jean-claude-juncker/

 I think he's behaving like a cock tbh. He is one smug little chuff. What he's perhaps missing is that whilst other govt ministers are trying to steer a UK beneficial path out of this, he is just making it more difficult with his self satisfied jibes.

Mr Farage - its not all about you, its about every single one of us.

Of course he is - he's been fighting to get out of Europe for 25 years, but I don't think anybody seriously believed that he had any idea of what to do if he got his wish. All he can do is act like a smug idiot, because that's all he's got left.

His main job now will to be sit at the sideline criticising the Tories every move.

Any concession they make in order to reach a deal will be 'proof' that they don't want to do take the UK 'out out' and it will get UKIP many more votes at the next election.

Fretwired

Snap said:

Fretwired said:

octatonic said:

Europe is pretty clear it seems.

No rights without obligations.

No taking something out without putting something in.

No cherry picking, no 'cake and eat it'.

Fine .. no BMW's or French cheese ... when money talks, principles take a walk.

Farage on top form ... I'd never vote for him but it's great watching him wind up the overpaid eurocrats and MEPs .. watch the video.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nigel-farage-shares-cosy-embrace-with-jean-claude-juncker/

 I think he's behaving like a cock tbh. He is one smug little chuff. What he's perhaps missing is that whilst other govt ministers are trying to steer a UK beneficial path out of this, he is just making it more difficult with his self satisfied jibes.

Mr Farage - its not all about you, its about every single one of us.

Oh come on. Seen what Junker and Schulz have said over the last few days .. Junker doesn't want a free trade deal on any terms (the UK should be punished) and wants us to leave now ... nobody calls him a cock. Farage is right - if we leave we should negotiate an EU free trade deal and be friends. Junker asked him what he was doing there - he's an elected MEP mate.

digitalscream

octatonic said:

digitalscream said:

Of course he is - he's been fighting to get out of Europe for 25 years, but I don't think anybody seriously believed that he had any idea of what to do if he got his wish. All he can do is act like a smug idiot, because that's all he's got left.

His main job now will to be sit at the sideline criticising the Tories every move.

Any concession they make in order to reach a deal will be 'proof' that they don't want to do take the UK 'out out' and it will get UKIP many more votes at the next election.

...and people will vote for them in droves even though they have even less idea of what UKIP stands for, given that their entire raison d'etre has come to pass. I suppose they'll just resort to rabble-rousing and carping at anybody who's not them from this point forth.

Bogwhoppit

During one part of the debate in the EP today, was it Farage they laughed at, or the UKs ability to do well outside the UK.

Now, for a patriot, they laughed at the UK; for a politically astute person, they laughed at Farage. Either way, the UK was mocked. That's not going to go down well 'IF' the media air that specific clip with their usual vigour.

FX_Munkee

octatonic said:

Farage said that had of lost 52:48 that it wouldn't have been the end of it.

If he wasn't going to give up, then why should we?

Because we're not duplicitous, unprincipled bellends?

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

octatonic said:

digitalscream said:

Of course he is - he's been fighting to get out of Europe for 25 years, but I don't think anybody seriously believed that he had any idea of what to do if he got his wish. All he can do is act like a smug idiot, because that's all he's got left.

His main job now will to be sit at the sideline criticising the Tories every move.

Any concession they make in order to reach a deal will be 'proof' that they don't want to do take the UK 'out out' and it will get UKIP many more votes at the next election.

...and people will vote for them in droves even though they have even less idea of what UKIP stands for, given that their entire raison d'etre has come to pass. I suppose they'll just resort to rabble-rousing and carping at anybody who's not them from this point forth.

Once we 're out of the EU Farage says he's retiring .. he has no intention of standing for parliament and will probably lose the UKIP leadership election to Carswell who has plans to change and modernise the party. We have no idea what UKIP will look like - they will only ever be a fringe party and without Farage I think they will disappear.

Another six months of a roller coaster economy and people will be begging not to leave the EU.

Fretwired

Bogwhoppit said:

During one part of the debate in the EP today, was it Farage they laughed at, or the UKs ability to do well outside the UK.

Now, for a patriot, they laughed at the UK; for a politically astute person, they laughed at Farage. Either way, the UK was mocked. That's not going to go down well 'IF' the media air that specific clip with their usual vigour.

I think most were laughing at Farage but also the UK. And why wouldn't they? They all earn more than David Cameron, work fewer hours and have better perks. They'll fight tooth and nail to hang on to their gold plated jobs and pensions. The one thing they've realised is the EU won't be the same and will have to reform. No wonder they're angry.

digitalscream

Heh...just saw this on Facebook...

An interesting fact: my back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest by the time we actually leave the EU, a majority of the UK will want to Remain, even if nobody changes their mind.

It'll take at least 2-3 years to negotiate us leaving. In that time around 1.5 million UK citizens will die and 2 million will turn 18. With 18 year olds about 75% in favour of the EU and those 65+ 60/40 against it, Remain will gain just under a million supporters and Leave will lose about a third of a million.

Even if nobody changes their mind, by the time the thing we voted for comes to pass, public opinion will be against it. Demographics are terrifying, and politics is terrifyingly short-term.

There obviously isn't a solution to that, but it's another potential wrinkle in the whole "will of the people" thing.

octatonic

FX_Munkee said:

octatonic said:

Farage said that had of lost 52:48 that it wouldn't have been the end of it.

If he wasn't going to give up, then why should we?

Because we're not duplicitous, unprincipled bellends?

You think?

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Heh...just saw this on Facebook...

An interesting fact: my back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest by the time we actually leave the EU, a majority of the UK will want to Remain, even if nobody changes their mind.

It'll take at least 2-3 years to negotiate us leaving. In that time around 1.5 million UK citizens will die and 2 million will turn 18. With 18 year olds about 75% in favour of the EU and those 65+ 60/40 against it, Remain will gain just under a million supporters and Leave will lose about a third of a million.

Even if nobody changes their mind, by the time the thing we voted for comes to pass, public opinion will be against it. Demographics are terrifying, and politics is terrifyingly short-term.

There obviously isn't a solution to that, but it's another potential wrinkle in the whole "will of the people" thing.

Good point I hadn't considered, although I suspect this won't play out that long. The City will be putting pressure on their mates in the Tory Party to fix this mess quickly.

FX_Munkee

octatonic said:

FX_Munkee said:

octatonic said:

Farage said that had of lost 52:48 that it wouldn't have been the end of it.

If he wasn't going to give up, then why should we?

Because we're not duplicitous, unprincipled bellends?

You think?

Honestly? I'd probably quite like it if someone else were to equal his unashamed twatishness and ignore the referendum, but I can't quite bring myself to do it myself.
This is why we elect representatives isn't it?

digitalscream

FX_Munkee said:

Honestly? I'd probably quite like it if someone else were to equal his unashamed twatishness and ignore the referendum, but I can't quite bring myself to do it myself.
This is why we elect representatives isn't it?

So they can be the dicks and get the blame for it while we sit back and look innocent?

Yup

Fretwired

From the Times ..... Mr Junker rants and raves

Britain must “get on with it” and get out of the European Union, Jean-Claude Juncker told MEPs today while announcing a ban on all contacts between Brussels officials and Whitehall.

In a rambling and emotional speech, the European Commission president taunted British eurosceptic MEPs and called on David Cameron to “clarify” what Britain will do next.

“I will see the prime minister later this morning to ask him to clarify the situation as rapidly as possible. We cannot get into a period of extended uncertainty," he told the European Parliament. “No notification, no negotiation.”

During a meeting with Mr Cameron today Mr Juncker will express his anger that Britain has not immediately triggered the EU’s “Article 50” exit clause after the Brexit referendum last week.

“They have expressed their view. Now there have to be consequences,” he said.

EU leaders will meet in Brussels today and over dinner will discuss the British referendum after hearing from the prime minister about the government’s plans following his resignation.

Mr Juncker has imposed a ban on all contacts between the Commission and the British government in revenge for Mr Cameron’s insistence that Britain needs to choose a new leader before triggering withdrawal talks

“I have placed a presidential ban on commissioners engaging in discussions with representatives of the British government,” he said.

"There can be no secret negotiations. No. No secret negotiations.”

Despite kissing Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader as he arrived in the parliament chamber, Mr Juncker taunted British Eurosceptic MEPs who applauded his comments that the EU “must respect British democracy and the way it has expressed its view”.

“That’s the last time you are applauding here,” he said. “You were fighting for the exit, the British people voted in favour of the exit. Why are you here?”

"It's a pleasure," Mr Farage should reply.

Mr Juncker hit back at critics, especially in central and eastern Europe, who have mounted a diplomatic campaign to remove him from office.

"I'm not tired. I'm not sick,” he said. “Until my last breath I will fight for Europe. I'm not a robot. I'm not a grey bureaucrat or technocrat. I'm a human being.”

Speaking afterwards, Mr Farage recalled how MEPs had laughed at him when he arrived at the European Parliament 17 years ago to launch the campaign to get Britain out of the EU. “Well, I have to say, you’re not laughing now, are you?” he said, to jeers from colleagues.

Mr Farage said that the UK should invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty as soon as possible after last week’s “seismic” referendum result in which British voters had demanded their country back.

“I will make one prediction this morning: the United Kingdom will not be the last member state to leave the European Union,” he said.

Meanwhile, the leader of the socialist group in the parliament, Gianni Pitella, said that the EU had to redefine its relationship with the UK as soon as possible.

“We cannot remain hostages to the internal caprices of the Conservatives in London,” he said. “Cameron bears the historic responsibility for having pushed the UK out of the EU. He should now have the decency to start the withdrawal process as swiftly as possible before he disappears forever from the public scene.”

lloyd

How the fuck is banning meetings going to solve anything?

Sporky

That Juncker bloke sounds a bit unhinged. Does he foam at the mouth and have a bulging vein on his forehead?

JezWynd

Myranda said:

The main reason it was not made clear that this referendum was advisory was the slippery bastard of a PM we have...

He promised to abide by the referendum, he promised that if he was PM he'd enact article 50. As soon as the result came in, he f***ed off!....

Cameron has done great damage to the country but we seem to be compounding it with the air of hysteria that's being fanned by the media (and our own posts). If he had kept to his word and started the process to leave then things would be a lot clearer than they currently are. There's way too much doom and gloom about the future of the UK. We originally signed up to a Common Market and if it had remained at that level then I would be very happy to stay but it's not. Instead the European Project has grown and enforced regulations that will see the endless movement of labour as it chases work instead of staying put and making a success of their own countries.