Did Corbyn intentionally not support Remain properly, or is he not very good at politics?

Heartfeltdawn

iseverynamegone said:

Corbyn is about the only honest politician we have.

What is honest about a man whose leadership campaign was Euro-critical but whose referendum campaign was Remain? 

When Nick Clegg took the Liberal Democrats into coalition, he scuppered the party by compromising its principles in exchange for a bit of a look at the top seat in office. Corbyn in many ways has done the same. Caught between the pro-EU Londoncentric section of the party and the anti-EU support in the North, he adopted a non-position, that of supporting Remain but doing so with a giant scowl on the face and no real desire to do anything. If you go back and see how he spoke on Europe during the leadership campaign, it's markedly different. At a time when he should have stood up and talked and used the skills he does possess, he retreated. 

Trying to cover their four lines of backers is going to be immensely difficult. 

1. The unions. Backed Remain. 

2. Non-unionized workers, traditional Labour voters. Many of these voted Leave. 

3. The city vote. Labour dominates the directly elected mayoral list. The like of London and Bristol voted Remain. 

4. The further left vote with a lot of young folk. Mostly Remain. 

Conservative support hasn't really changed that much over the last couple of decades. The Labour support has and trying to satisfy such a wide ranging supporter base is going to be bloody difficult.

As said elsewhere, Labour may well have to accept that they will never be a majority party, consolidate around their traditional base, and push for PR in order to get more noses into Parliament. Perhaps the answer really is to have a traditional union party (Labour) and a new liberal party who work together in partnership against the imminent right wing Conservative Party.

And yes a referendum on PR should occur. A coalition of Labour, Liberal, Green, SNP, and UKIP for such a campaign would be very forceful. 

Chuffola

Don't like Corbyn.

Looks like he would listen to folk music and Woody Guthrie all day.

Heartfeltdawn

After his first speech as leader at the Labour conference, his exit music was this. He's also named the Animals as his favourite group. 

quarky

I wonder what the odds are on a LibDem government next...

EDIT; Looks like 150/1 at PaddyPower for most seats. Might be worth a couple of quid if I was a betting person!

digitalscream

quarky said:

I wonder what the odds are on a LibDem government next...

EDIT; Looks like 150/1 at PaddyPower for most seats. Might be worth a couple of quid if I was a betting person!

Given the way the country's finances are going, you might just get your couple of quid back if you win.

quarky

digitalscream said:

quarky said:

I wonder what the odds are on a LibDem government next...

EDIT; Looks like 150/1 at PaddyPower for most seats. Might be worth a couple of quid if I was a betting person!

Given the way the country's finances are going, you might just get your couple of quid back if you win.

Maybe they can pay in apples. Oh yes, apparently there won't be anyone to pick them either..

digitalscream

quarky said:

digitalscream said:

quarky said:

I wonder what the odds are on a LibDem government next...

EDIT; Looks like 150/1 at PaddyPower for most seats. Might be worth a couple of quid if I was a betting person!

Given the way the country's finances are going, you might just get your couple of quid back if you win.

Maybe they can pay in apples. Oh yes, apparently there won't be anyone to pick them either..

True, but you'd have variety. That's important, apparently.

iseverynamegone

Heartfeltdawn;1127857" said:

iseverynamegone said:

Corbyn is about the only honest politician we have.





What is honest about a man whose leadership campaign was Euro-critical but whose referendum campaign was Remain?. 

Of course It's entirely possible to be critical of the EU for any number of reasons but still vote remain. I did. We live in a imperfect world . Of course I'm not leading the opposition.

For Corbyn if he went into evangelical pro EU mode he would would have been criticised for that as well. A fella like Corbyn is never going to go down well with the press or most of his own party MPs. Murdoch likes puppets and MPs just want to be elected , whatever the cost.

digitalscream

Adding to his own problems, Corbyn is now refusing to tell anyone which way he voted. I think that's pretty much the end of it - for a guy whose public image relies on honesty, even the whiff of a possibility that he was in the Remain camp while secretly voting Leave means he's basically done.

earwighoney

ToneControl said:

I don't think he's all that honest.

I'd trust Tony Benn or Clare Short far more

Erm, you do know Tony Benn is dead? 

He'd still be a better leader than most, even if the zombie resurrection fails. 

MrBump

I wonder if we'll get a split of centrists from Labour joining with non-Europhiles from LibDem to form a new centre left party?

scrumhalf

Have any of the new shadow cabinet quit yet?

digitalscream

Well, this is the current state of affairs:

Fretwired

MrBump said:

I wonder if we'll get a split of centrists from Labour joining with non-Europhiles from LibDem to form a new centre left party?

Or Tories to the left of the party. I wrote a thread saying the Tories were finished and that they'd end up breaking apart over Europe. I was ridiculed. I still see this as a likely outcome. Cameron's abandoned ship, Osborne will be forced to do likewise - half the party want Boris - the other half can't stand him, but don't really want May. At the moment they're arguing in public .. very unedifying.

If Boris gets elected leader he may be able to steady the ship. If May's elected there may be many moderate Tories who will look elsewhere due to her views on detaining people and the ECHR.

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

MrBump said:

I wonder if we'll get a split of centrists from Labour joining with non-Europhiles from LibDem to form a new centre left party?

Or Tories to the left of the party. I wrote a thread saying the Tories were finished and that they'd end up breaking apart over Europe. I was ridiculed. I still see this as a likely outcome. Cameron's abandoned ship, Osborne will be forced to do likewise - half the party want Boris - the other half can't stand him, but don't really want May. At the moment they're arguing in public .. very unedifying.

If Boris gets elected leader he may be able to steady the ship. If May's elected there may be many moderate Tories who will look elsewhere due to her views on detaining people and the ECHR.

I sort of wonder if we'll get a new party which is mostly-central, made up of the more moderate members of Labour and Tory but isn't the wet fish that's the Lib Dems?

While it's unlikely, I think it might be the most interesting outcome, rather than the ever-increasing polarisation which seems to be happening to the whole country at the moment.

Chalky

digitalscream;1128033" said:

Adding to his own problems, Corbyn is now refusing to tell anyone which way he voted. I think that's pretty much the end of it - for a guy whose public image relies on honesty, even the whiff of a possibility that he was in the Remain camp while secretly voting Leave means he's basically done.

The Tory goal was wide open from Friday morning but Corbyn completely failed to seize the opportunity, even to just make some statesman-like comments. Complete failure.

chillidoggy

According to Paddy Power, May is 5/2, Boris at 4/6 and Gove at 9/2.

Shame we can't have Boris as PM, and let May off the leash for any negotiation.

TTony

digitalscream said:

Well, this is the current state of affairs:

It's probably changed by now.

Did someone swap a page in his "how to be the leader of the shadow cabinet" handbook?

He's now got a cabinet of shadows instead.

At least everyone who attends now gets their own chair to sit on.

Farcical.  But it's good to know that the Labour politicians are as self-interested and oblivious to popular opinion as are the Tories.  

digitalscream

TTony said:

Farcical.  

Yes...but what I think is the real comedy is that everybody's watching the Labour party's meltdown with far more interest than the things that actually matter in the here and now, like the fact that the pound has dropped below $1.32 (which was the majority of experts' expectation for the bottom of the barrel), the domestic-focused FTSE 250 is in freefall and Merkel - our best hope for some sort of moderation in the coming negotiations - has rubbished Boris Johnson's apparent plan of informal pre-negotiations before Article 50 is invoked.

As always, the British media and public are focusing on drama rather than the job at hand.

Oh, and Kate Green just quit Corbyn's new team too.

freakboy1610

That Tom Watson seems a fairly shrewd guy. He's apparently warned Corbyn that he faces a leadership challenge! Meanwhile, Diane Abbott has started a leave Corbyn alone petition.