Did Corbyn intentionally not support Remain properly, or is he not very good at politics?

ToneControl

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

Evilmags said:

Corbyn got EE at A level at a well to do Grammer school. He is not very bright.

The peak of the baby boom year A levels was 1983

obviously he's a lot older, but the grade inflation from 1983 up to now is about 2 grades

Therefore EE in 1983 would be CC now

I'm not sure if 1966 would have been harder, but that's a crap score for a grammar school

Anyway, anyone who has worked with bright people: top professionals, CxOs, professors will have instantly recognised that Corbyn is thick

You could say exactly the same about me if you went by my A level grades. Probably quite a few others in this forum. Grades are not the sole means of judging intellect. By all means damn him for being a pissweak leader but 'low grades = dumb' is a statement I dislike. 

I always thought he was thick because of his interviews and speeches

Fact is he went to a top grammar school, which gave him similar advantages to a private school, but did not get good grades

then he dropped out of his degree

I know for a fact that some people underperform in their A levels or degrees, for various reasons. This is not something I write people off for, it just means that they are either inconsistent, underperforming or thick, and we need to resort to other methods to find out why

When recruiting, for example, you balance poor results against career achievements, quality of thought in conversation, analytical insight. On all these he is poor. I knew this before I knew about his exam results

ICBM

chillidoggy said:

It's OK.

It's time to let him go.

Wis'd.

You were right all along, of course. I mistakenly believed that we might finally have found a politician who stood for something other than the emptiness of their own soundbites and could lead the Labour Party to a better place, even if he never became PM. I was wrong about the second bit.

UnclePsychosis

Corbyn supporters wearing tshirts saying "eradicate Blairite vermin" on them at their rally. Apart from the sheer stupidity of wearing that the week after a Labour MP was murdered doing her job, it hardly strikes me as the kind of politics that's going to reach out across divides and get them into number ten. At this rate the SNP will end up as the official opposition because there's no one left to stand under Corbyn.

Drew_TNBD

I am so depressed at the state of this country, and our world. Feel free to laugh at me Uncle P, I'm where you were last week.

mellowsun

Let's see:

- strongly left-wing views

- criticised for vacillating leadership and ineffectiveness

- sceptical about the EU

- lambasted for inappropriate dress at Remembrance Day

This is from the Wikipedia page about ... Michael Foot

So we've been here before and we know pretty much what happens next

Sambostar

Drew_fx said:

I am so depressed at the state of this country, and our world. Feel free to laugh at me Uncle P, I'm where you were last week.

Good, now we are all on the level, European, world wide.

Heartfeltdawn

UnclePsychosis said:

Corbyn supporters wearing tshirts saying "eradicate Blairite vermin" on them at their rally. Apart from the sheer stupidity of wearing that the week after a Labour MP was murdered doing her job, it hardly strikes me as the kind of politics that's going to reach out across divides and get them into number ten. At this rate the SNP will end up as the official opposition because there's no one left to stand under Corbyn.

Fuck those people. Fuck Corbyn for speaking so poorly for ages and then running off yesterday to address his own little clique. C'mon Jez, tell those students sad about Europe who voted you into office how the RMT and SWP backed Left Leave. Tell those students who support you now how unions and groups backing you voted the same way as Nigel Farage. You won't share a stage with a Tory out of principle but you're fucking happy to share a stage with groups like the RMT who voted the same way as UKIP. 

Cunt. 

UnclePsychosis

Drew_fx;1130748" said:

I am so depressed at the state of this country, and our world. Feel free to laugh at me Uncle P, I'm where you were last week.

Nah, you're good. It's fucking terrifying right now. I wish I didn't like my job, I'd definitely be thinking about fucking off somewhere more stable if I didn't.

A divided country, incompetent politicians and nationalists of all flavours everywhere. It's like everyone has somehow forgotten the first half of the last century.

skankdelvar

mellowsun said:

Let's see:

- strongly left-wing views

- criticised for vacillating leadership and ineffectiveness

- sceptical about the EU

- lambasted for inappropriate dress at Remembrance Day

This is from the Wikipedia page about ... Michael Foot

So we've been here before and we know pretty much what happens next

IIRC, a few so-called 'moderates' split off from Labour before Foot led the majority of the PLP into the '83 election. This time round we will see Jeremy Corbyn split off from the majority of the PLP and lead a few so-called 'hardliners' into the 2020 contest.

So what happens after that?

Euan Blair: The Red Crown Prince

ToneControl

Heartfeltdawn said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Corbyn supporters wearing tshirts saying "eradicate Blairite vermin" on them at their rally. Apart from the sheer stupidity of wearing that the week after a Labour MP was murdered doing her job, it hardly strikes me as the kind of politics that's going to reach out across divides and get them into number ten. At this rate the SNP will end up as the official opposition because there's no one left to stand under Corbyn.

Fuck those people. Fuck Corbyn for speaking so poorly for ages and then running off yesterday to address his own little clique. C'mon Jez, tell those students sad about Europe who voted you into office how the RMT and SWP backed Left Leave. Tell those students who support you now how unions and groups backing you voted the same way as Nigel Farage. You won't share a stage with a Tory out of principle but you're fucking happy to share a stage with groups like the RMT who voted the same way as UKIP. 

Cunt. 

I'm assuming that a lot of Corbyn supporters are students or recent students

I hated student politics when I was a student

Most people were lefty at my redbrick uni in the 80s, that was fine with me. But there was always this holier than thou competition going on - who could be more right on than everyone else. SJW in today's parlance. 

Leon Brittan came to speak at the union one day, on invitation from the tiny tory student group. This was a few months after Heseltine was splatted with red paint when he visited. The Chief constable had been very embarrassed. Several hundred police marched out and beat the shit out of the students waiting outside the student union. They even fractured the spine of a girl from the conservative student group. I met friends there 10 minutes after this happened, they were terrified. The student union exec had ordered the security staff to bar the doors and not allow the students under attack to enter the union building. Within days, there was the largest ever extraordinary meeting of the Student union, and the exec were shamed - a long story. At the next election, hardly any of the political fuckers was elected, mostly just people standing to run the student union as a social club, and to look after students.

The students had tried to embarrass the tory government, and the embarrassed chief constable (in the height of Thatcher's Britain) overacted to prevent a repeat performance - the the mass of students must have thought "what was the point of that?"

Everone realised, I think - that the more ambitious and SJW student union leaders did not give a shit about the actual students, they were just looking after themselves and their own politics

This was a trivial protest that was badly received, but Student politics can be quietly toxic

To be frank, it's ludicrous that 18-21 year olds could presume that they have some rare insight into what the country needs

I can remember having strong opinions, but it's clearly daft to discount the opinions of all those who are older.

We had the "Winnie Mandela" student union building at a nearby Uni, a self-conscious SJW upgrade from the previous name "Nelson Mandela building" 

That backfired a bit

Students supporting Corbyn should take a reality check - they are enhancing the lead of the tory party, and could destroy the Labour party over the next 2-3 months

I just hope that a load of normal voters pay the £3 each and get rid of Corbyn

UnclePsychosis

The guy I saw pictured wearing the t-shirt looked about fifty.

Student politics can be shit, but let's not assume that they're any more stupid than 60-somethings with no education whose political opinions are formed by 40 years of reading The Sun and nothing else.

(and before any of the usual suspects jump on that, it wasn't supposed to be an exhaustive example)

ICBM

UnclePsychosis said:

The guy I saw pictured wearing the t-shirt looked about fifty.

Did he also have wavy/floppy hair, slightly oversized specs and a permanently supercilious expression on his face?

quarky

UnclePsychosis said:
A divided country, incompetent politicians and nationalists of all flavours everywhere. It's like everyone has somehow forgotten the first half of the last century.

Why is it, that it is fine for countries such as Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Germany, France, Spain, etc. to all do what is best for their countries, but not for England?

In the UK, we are expected to contribute to an organisation that redirects money from us to poor parts of Europe (fine) but harming productivity at the same time (not fine), and even within the UK, England are expected to do the same (fine), but those regions are all allowed to have their own Parliaments, vote for nationalist parties, and expect special treatment. But god forbid the English want to do something similar. What is the difference? Why is it that putting national interests is fine in other parts of the EU but not here? Why is it fine in other parts of the UK but not here?

UnclePsychosis

Do you know what the word *everywhere* means? I'll give you a clue, it includes Scotland.

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

I'm assuming that a lot of Corbyn supporters are students or recent students

Not from the entourage I saw when he came to Bristol in May. You do have a younger crowd, quite metropolitan, but there's also older ones from whom going to Class War and Tusc would be too much. The impression I got was that it's from a pretty narrow band of politics, essentially unions, dyed in the wool socialists, and the younger ones. Certainly not the sort of support that suggests election victories. 

quarky

UnclePsychosis said:

Do you know what the word *everywhere* means? I'll give you a clue, it includes Scotland.

So no country should be doing what is best for it's people? When countries like Poland put the interests of their people first when they joined the EU for their benefit, that was wrong too?

quarky

Interesting, if you look at EU spending per captia, it is lowest in the UK (less than half what it is in Germany), and highest in Luxembourg.

UnclePsychosis

quarky said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Do you know what the word *everywhere* means? I'll give you a clue, it includes Scotland.

So no country should be doing what is best for it's people? When countries like Poland put the interests of their people first when they joined the EU for their benefit, that was wrong too?

I like the implication that only nationalists want what's best for their country.

Chuffola

My natural political leaning is centre right (which is a difficult position to be in in the political wilderness that is NI) so I suppose in mainland GB I'd be a reluctant Tory or a LibDem.

I'm joining the Labour Party for £3 to vote for ANYONE that has a chance of being a realistic opposition leader so that Boris can be held to account when he takes over at No 10.

I suspect I'll not be alone.

What a farce the Labour Party has become. What a farce the Conservative party has become.

Heartfeltdawn

Chuffola said:

What a farce the Labour Party has become. What a farce the Conservative party has become.

Politics is a farce. The two main parties are in bits, there will be no snap election because of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act introduced by Nick Clegg, the Greens are fully of SJW policies that broadside their sensible elements, UKIP are UKIP... it's not hard to see why Sturgeon has gained such respect. I don't think she's particularly fantastic as a leader but she walks in a political battlefield full of turds.