Brexit legal challenge.

skankdelvar

If there's a vote to invoke the article it will pass with a majority of at least 17. The May-whipped Tories + Jeremy Corbyn.

At which point various commentators will argue that 17 is not a majority. Sigh.

Of the five stages of grief, bereft remainers have done anger and are now moving from denial to bargaining. After this we expect depression then - finally - acceptance. About a month off, I'd say.

koneguitarist

Actually ICBM I respect your knowledge on amps and stuff, but stop the bloody whinging, it's really getting tiresome.

 The vote was cast, people voted, 17 million are wrong and 15 million are right is that the gist of your argument? Because only those that voted get a say, same as in any other vote.

I'm beginning to get pissed off at the remain side, just suck it up, accept the decision and work together to make it work rather than keeping a divide and causing the problems. 

No one knows how it's gonna turn out in long run, but the longer remain whingers carry on the longer it will take to work. 

Brize

ICBM said:

Christ, give it a rest.

No.

This is important.

Or, you could give trying to demand a result which you know is not supported by the majority of the population a rest.

An unbelievably facile argument. How on earth can you know that the majority of those who didn't vote supported the Remain camp? It seems fair to assume that they couldn't give a toss either way, otherwise they would have voted.

ICBM

Parliament would have the right to do that.

You're wrong - I am objecting on principle. I don't like the way that a non-binding referendum in which only a little over a third of the electorate voted for it is being held up as "a majority for leaving the EU". It is not.

I'll repeat - if a majority of the electorate vote to leave I would be happy with that, even though I disagree with it. Even in that case Parliament has the final say.

Garthy

Bucket;1137160" said:

Garthy said:

holnrew;1137137" said:In a general election, if a party only wins 52% of seats they're a minority government and don't have a mandate to govern

If this was a general election then Leave would have won 270 seats to 129.










How do you make that out?

Counting areas for and against. General elections are not popular votes but by area. Hence the likes of UKIP getting a fraction of the seats of SNP despite getting more actual votes cast. I think it was even worse for the Green Party.

Brize

ICBM said:

Parliament would have the right to do that.

You're wrong - I am objecting on principle. I don't like the way that a non-binding referendum in which only a little over a third of the electorate voted for it is being held up as "a majority for leaving the EU". It is not.

I'll repeat - if a majority of the electorate vote to leave I would be happy with that, even though I disagree with it. Even in that case Parliament has the final say.

Yeah, I wonder how much credence the Remainers would have given to the 'non-binding' argument had the result gone the other way.

So, you're for making voting compulsory are you, ICBM?

chrispy108

Funny how the absolute majority argument was never made before the results came in?

hungrymark

Parliament would have the right to do that, but would you support it and hold it up as an example of how a paliamentary democracy should work?

hungrymark

Bucket;1137160" said:

Garthy said:

holnrew;1137137" said:In a general election, if a party only wins 52% of seats they're a minority government and don't have a mandate to govern

If this was a general election then Leave would have won 270 seats to 129.










How do you make that out?

Presumably he knows the voting results by constituency.

John_P

So approx 35% voted remain and 65% didn't vote to remain. Seems like a clear majority didn't want to stay in the EU.

koneguitarist

Because the remain camp was too arrogant. 

Apathy is dangerous, if more people vote in future because of Brexit, that will be a plus at least.

Nothing wrong with vote, only @ICBM doesn't like the majority winning. 

ICBM

Brize said:

So, you're for making voting compulsory are you, ICBM?

Yes. It is in Australia.

koneguitarist said:

Nothing wrong with vote, only @ICBM doesn't like the majority winning. 

!!!!

I precisely want the majority to win.

What we have here is the largest minority winning, which is not the same thing at all.

koneguitarist

hungrymark said:

Bucket;1137160" said:

Garthy said:

holnrew;1137137" said:In a general election, if a party only wins 52% of seats they're a minority government and don't have a mandate to govern

If this was a general election then Leave would have won 270 seats to 129.










How do you make that out?

Presumably he knows the voting results by constituency.

I want to give a lol and a wis for that!

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

Brize said:

So, you're for making voting compulsory are you, ICBM?

Yes. It is in Australia.

Hate to tell you this but we are in UK, notice the We at the moment! You may have your wish being in Scotland to be in Europe but out of UK!

Brize

ICBM said:

I precisely want the majority to win.

What we have here is the largest minority winning, which is not the same thing at all.

Largest minority = majority.

ThorpyFX

A bit of history might be useful here. In 1930's Germany referendums were used to propel a fascist government to power... when people asked how it was possible for such a thing to happen, the answer is that the general public were duped into voting in a charismatic leader who sought to represent what they thought were their best wishes. Once in his tune changed somewhat and he consolidated his position and shored up his power....

Since World War II Germany hasn't held national level referenda, and rightly so... we should never have held a referendum, why we think we are any different to Germany is beyond me, governments are voted in to make difficult decisions. We the general public cannot be trusted to understand and analyse the facts. making a protest vote against the EU because you don't like the UK government is childish beyond belief and massively reckless.

the decision to leave/stay should now be made by the government, if they judge that it is not in our best interests to leave then great, if its the other way then so be it.

ICBM

Brize said:

Largest minority = majority.

Do you actually know what the terms mean?

The largest minority is *by definition* not a majority.

Brize

ICBM said:

Brize said:

Largest minority = majority.

Do you actually know what the terms mean?

The largest minority is *by definition* not a majority.

In the context of a binary referendum the largest 'minority' is a majority BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T VOTE DON'T COUNT!

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

Brize said:

Largest minority = majority.

Do you actually know what the terms mean?

The largest minority is *by definition* not a majority.

Actually you are wrong, as technically there were three factions, remain, leave and don't care, leave is the largest vote, so although they are a minority if you count remain and don't care together, you can't so they become a majority. Simples!

quarky

Richardj said:

Brize said:

ICBM said:

Someone needs to tell them that a majority of UK citizens did not express a desire to leave the EU.

Christ, give it a rest.

NO.  If you are so desperate to be out of Europe then get out.  Article 50 should have been invoked by now.  The very fact that no one has the courage to do it speaks volumes.  Don't tell me that you have to wait for advantageous deals, you can't have it both ways.  IN or OUT. Simples.

Holy shit! Brize is PM?