That petition...

Sporky · June 2016

thomasross20 said:

Sorry I hurt your feelings.

I'm a grown up. It takes more throwing "Nazi" in my direction and calling me a "lefty" to hurt my feelings.

It does rather affect my opinion of the person who did it though.

thomasross20 · June 2016

Not picking an argument but people vote with what info they're given at the time. It might be a shock to some now but does that really mean we should have two votes for everything? If the vote had been remain and people thought they'd made a mistake there, do folk think we'd all be as receptive to a re-vote, because I very much doubt it. I'm not starting any arguments, just some thoughts.

Iamnobody · June 2016

I've stayed out of these threads until now but having heard a lot of accusations about older people selfishly voting and not thinking about future generations - I'd like to offer an alternative mindset that I think could have prevailed.

Apologies if similar has already been posted...

In 1975 this country voted to remain in the Common Market.

Over the years the EU has developed into a very different beast - tripling in its membership and has imposed many rules and laws onto this country that are seen as unnecessary and unpopular.

40 years later the same voters (for the first time) feel empowered to change the situation and many will have voted out accordingly. Nothing more and nothing less than that.

thomasross20 · June 2016

Sporky said:

thomasross20 said:

Sorry I hurt your feelings.

I'm a grown up. It takes more throwing "Nazi" in my direction and calling me a "lefty" to hurt my feelings.

It does rather affect my opinion of the person who did it though.

Did you read the PM or are you ignoring it? I'm trying to make peace, man!!

You're passively aggressively picking fights - you can try and take some high ground if you want but we all know I'm not advocating slavery or Nazi-ism (however you spell that!) - people throw phrases like that and worse around. I apologised. You're continuing with this! You're trying to paint a worse picture than what this really is and I'd like you to stop it now, please. You're being a bully, to be honest, in a passive aggressive manner.

Garthy · June 2016

TTony said:

If you make a mistake, it's better to learn from it rather than to repeat it.

If there was a decision to have a second referendum, we really should try to do it better.

That means avoiding all the hyperbole and scare stories and instead having a reasoned debate, presented by reasonable and credible people who know what they're talking about.

It means finding an opportunity for an outcome that isn't so marginal and divisive.

The simplistic in/out choice forced us to choose between "In, I'm happy with everything that the EU has done, is doing, and plans to do, including that our PM appeared to have completely failed in getting any recognition of the UK view" and "Out, I don't want anything to do with anything EU based, even accepting that the consequences won't all be pleasant".

There has to be a third option that doesn't force everyone into one entrenched position or the other.

We should have learned that trench warfare really isn't an intelligent way to settle an argument.

What was your third option?

Junker, Tusk, Merkel and Hollande gave us just two options- like it or lump it. All this 'change from within' is nonesense and to demonstrate this there is an emergancy meeting to do the exact opposite as we we speak.

TTony · June 2016

Garthy said:
What was your third option?

Junker, Tusk, Merkel and Hollande gave us just two options- like it or lump it. All this 'change from within' is nonesense and to demonstrate this there is an emergancy meeting to do the exact opposite as we we speak.

A lot of people tried to put us into the situation of having to choose between X & Y, when they all assumed that we'd choose the option that they wanted.

Hence all the scare stories, created and perpetuated by so many different bodies.

Now that we've chosen the unexpected option, Junker, Tusk, Merkel and Hollande (to name just 4 of the guilty) are driven by different priorities and will adopt different arguments to support those different priorities.

The EU hierarchy are adopting a bit of carrot & stick. The stick is to beat the British (for choosing the wrong option), even though it's a stick that they don't actually hold, pour encourager les autres. At the same time, they're offering carrots to other countries in an attempt at reducing the risk of them getting into referenda. With great irony, if they'd offered us some of the same flexibility and pragmatism that is now being talked about, the result would likely have been different. Instead they sent Cameron home with something that even he couldn't spin into anything credible.

Hollande is under great pressure domestically. He's a pretty unpopular president with the Front National making things very uncomfortable. It doesn't take much more support for them to be able to demand their own referendum. France isn't alone. Remember last month that Austria came within a few thousand votes of electing a "proper" right wing president who would have picked a fight with the EU on immigration grounds. Greece only stays in the EU because Germany pays them to.

Merkel's situation is different. Culturally and economically they have more in common with the UK than with most of the rest of Europe. If the EU attempts to throw up trade barriers with the UK, then Germany will suffer most. So I'd bet that she doesn't let that happen. Not that I mean to imply that Germany runs Europe of course!

This has a way to play out yet. The main worry is that politicians and Eurocrats are not going to be the best players.

TTony · June 2016

thomasross20 said:
You're passively aggressively picking fights

To my way of thinking, one of the most passive aggressive things that can be done is to accuse someone of being passive aggressive.

That's probably being passive aggressive though.

Garthy · June 2016

Tony they aren't offering any carrots to anyone. Just sticks, lots and lots of sticks and the biggest stick will be for us.

thomasross20 · June 2016

TTony;1125945" said:
thomasross20 said:You're passively aggressively picking fights

To my way of thinking, one of the most passive aggressive things that can be done is to accuse someone of being passive aggressive.

That's probably being passive aggressive though.

Ok, I'm sticking to music related topics from now on lol

Chalky · June 2016

Garthy;1125952" said:
Tony they aren't offering any carrots to anyone. Just sticks, lots and lots of sticks and the biggest stick will be for us.

What sticks? Please tell us what they can do?

Garthy · June 2016

Chalky said:

Garthy;1125952" said:
Tony they aren't offering any carrots to anyone. Just sticks, lots and lots of sticks and the biggest stick will be for us.
What sticks? Please tell us what they can do?

Hopefully nothing, but it won't stop Junker from trying.

octatonic · June 2016

What is to stop people from signing this multiple times?

Ianpdq · June 2016

This is why there is so many on petition

TTony · June 2016

Chalky said:

Garthy;1125952" said:
Tony they aren't offering any carrots to anyone. Just sticks, lots and lots of sticks and the biggest stick will be for us.
What sticks? Please tell us what they can do?

They can choose to make us pay more for our German cars. And French cars (if anyone is daft enough to want to buy one of those). And then we'll have to buy our own, or Japanese instead. That'll teach us. It's not like we buy many German cars, so they'll not notice the drop in sales.

They can choose to make us pay more for our French wine & cheese. And then we'll have to find somewhere else to buy our wine from. If only somewhere like Australia, or New Zealand, or Chile, or South Africa (my personal favourite) made decent wine.

Yup, they can impede the free movement of people to & from the UK. Firstly, thank you. Secondly, I think our net migration figures demonstrate that the greater impact will be felt by the European nationalities rather than the British.

OK, here's the killer one. They can stop making laws on our behalf, so we'll have to make our own. Ah-hah. So, how's that going to work then, not like we've been managing on our own for centuries.

And finally, the reason that the CEE markets took a hit on Friday is that they recognised that Brexit also means Fundsexit. No British contributions (argue about the net amount all you like, it *IS* a net contribution), means a reduction in funding received in CEE countries.

Hit me with your Brexit stick.

Emp_Fab · June 2016

octatonic said:

What is to stop people from signing this multiple times?

It detects that you've signed already. Might be a cookie, IP and/or email address log. Nothing that is impenetrable but will stop 99% of folks casually trying it. It's irrelevant anyway - once it gets to 100K it will be 'considered for debate'.

Garthy · June 2016

TTony said:

Chalky said:

Garthy;1125952" said:
Tony they aren't offering any carrots to anyone. Just sticks, lots and lots of sticks and the biggest stick will be for us.
What sticks? Please tell us what they can do?

They can choose to make us pay more for our German cars. And French cars (if anyone is daft enough to want to buy one of those). And then we'll have to buy our own, or Japanese instead. That'll teach us. It's not like we buy many German cars, so they'll not notice the drop in sales.

They can choose to make us pay more for our French wine & cheese. And then we'll have to find somewhere else to buy our wine from. If only somewhere like Australia, or New Zealand, or Chile, or South Africa (my personal favourite) made decent wine.

Yup, they can impede the free movement of people to & from the UK. Firstly, thank you. Secondly, I think our net migration figures demonstrate that the greater impact will be felt by the European nationalities rather than the British.

OK, here's the killer one. They can stop making laws on our behalf, so we'll have to make our own. Ah-hah. So, how's that going to work then, not like we've been managing on our own for centuries.

And finally, the reason that the CEE markets took a hit on Friday is that they recognised that Brexit also means Fundsexit. No British contributions (argue about the net amount all you like, it *IS* a net contribution), means a reduction in funding received in CEE countries.

Hit me with your Brexit stick.

Superb stuff.

After a bit of searching today I found out that the UK buys 1 in 5 German made cars and that we are their single largest export market. No wonder the German trade unions pleaded with Merkel to play nicely yesterday.

Ro_S · June 2016

Fretwired said:

Ro_S said:

Fretwired said:

Some whingers having a melt down ... they just can't get over their own self-importance and sense of entitlement .. "let's start a petion and get the result changed .. let's no platform Boris"

she can f@ck off then to the eu then

There's a camp in Calais she might like .. lots of interesting people from around the world.

Careful. She might get gang raped there. Certainly not the safe space she probably wants.

DanR · June 2016

Ro_S;1126075" said:
Fretwired said:

Ro_S said:

Fretwired said:

Some whingers having a melt down ... they just can't get over their own self-importance and sense of entitlement .. "let's start a petion and get the result changed .. let's no platform Boris"

she can f@ck off then to the eu then

There's a camp in Calais she might like .. lots of interesting people from around the world.

Careful. She might get gang raped there. Certainly not the safe space she probably wants.

Not really sure how joking about someone getting raped is ever funny or a way to try to prove some point.

Ro_S · June 2016

DanR said:
Not really sure how joking about someone getting raped is ever funny or a way to try to prove some point.

I wasn't joking. It occurs.

Muslim migrants in Europe from the Middle East do engage in rape and sexual molestation - on a group and individual basis - in a statistical higher proportion. Look at Sweden and Germany in particular. Certain Muslim cultures have a certain word for it; they think it's fun and fair game - especially if the female is white.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2016

Ianpdq said:

This is why there is so many on petition

Or the website logs the IP address of the individual, which is how they create the petition map featuring those who have signed it, and the foreign ones are logged and bonged out.

Did you sign your ballot paper using a pen or a pencil on Thursday?

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