Any Duesenberg love on here ?

Danny1969 · July 2017

You can state "made in" what ever country some bit of major manufacturing was completed in. I suspect Duesenberg buy in the basic woodwork assembled and painted. Then it's their expertise in the fitment of the hardware and setup via their PLEC machine which completes the package. They can rightly say made in Germany same as Dell can say made in Ireland and Apple can say made in China.

As I said a CNC machine operates exactly the same no matter what country you put it in, it's just following a program. I can't see what difference it makes ?

musicman100 · July 2017

Danny1969 said:

You can state "made in" what ever country some bit of major manufacturing was completed in. I suspect Duesenberg buy in the basic woodwork assembled and painted. Then it's their expertise in the fitment of the hardware and setup via their PLEC machine which completes the package. They can rightly say made in Germany same as Dell can say made in Ireland and Apple can say made in China.

As I said a CNC machine operates exactly the same no matter what country you put it in, it's just following a program. I can't see what difference it makes ?

It's simple if they were honest about where thier bodies where manufactured people would be shine about paying their high prices.

So why aren't they priced accordingly then?
like all the other Far East made guitars that are honest about.

Danny1969 · July 2017

musicman100 said:

Danny1969 said:

You can state "made in" what ever country some bit of major manufacturing was completed in. I suspect Duesenberg buy in the basic woodwork assembled and painted. Then it's their expertise in the fitment of the hardware and setup via their PLEC machine which completes the package. They can rightly say made in Germany same as Dell can say made in Ireland and Apple can say made in China.

As I said a CNC machine operates exactly the same no matter what country you put it in, it's just following a program. I can't see what difference it makes ?

It's simple if they were honest about where thier bodies where manufactured people would be shine about paying their high prices.

So why aren't they priced accordingly then?
like all the other Far East made guitars that are honest about.

They are priced accordingly, they have a reputation for quality, amazing playabilty and coolness which is what bumps the price up ....
If you put a Fender CNC machine in Korea it would make exactly the same body as it would if it was in the USA. It's following a program it makes no difference where it is .... the only difference is where the wood comes from and how it's treated

musicman100 · July 2017

Danny1969 said:

musicman100 said:

Danny1969 said:

You can state "made in" what ever country some bit of major manufacturing was completed in. I suspect Duesenberg buy in the basic woodwork assembled and painted. Then it's their expertise in the fitment of the hardware and setup via their PLEC machine which completes the package. They can rightly say made in Germany same as Dell can say made in Ireland and Apple can say made in China.

As I said a CNC machine operates exactly the same no matter what country you put it in, it's just following a program. I can't see what difference it makes ?

It's simple if they were honest about where thier bodies where manufactured people would be shine about paying their high prices.

So why aren't they priced accordingly then?
like all the other Far East made guitars that are honest about.

They are priced accordingly, they have a reputation for quality, amazing playabilty and coolness which is what bumps the price up ....
If you put a Fender CNC machine in Korea it would make exactly the same body as it would if it was in the USA. It's following a program it makes no difference where it is .... the only difference is where the wood comes from and how it's treated

Obviously you know move about guitars than me so I'll leave you to it as it's all a load of crap?????

ill go and play my crazy guitars. Lol

dazzajl · July 2017

Haters gonna hate hate hate hate, just shake it off @hotpickups ;;

I don't personally understand the hate caused by the origigin question or the need to for so much secrecy about it but I don't think you're going to change many minds on the subject.

Have a ball trying the Paloma today. I'm far more expecting to hear you've bought it than that I'll be seeing you tomorrow but it's good either way.

D

hotpickups · July 2017

dazzajl said:

Haters gonna hate hate hate hate, just shake it off @hotpickups ;;

I don't personally understand the hate caused by the origigin question or the need to for so much secrecy about it but I don't think you're going to change many minds on the subject.

Have a ball trying the Paloma today. I'm far more expecting to hear you've bought it than that I'll be seeing you tomorrow but it's good either way.

D

It's not for sale @dazzajl as it's Howard's of Oasis personal guitar. But he's letting me try before I eventually buy

Long way to go but nearer than Guildford

dindude · July 2017

Danny1969 said:

You can state "made in" what ever country some bit of major manufacturing was completed in.

See, I don't think you can - most countries have at least a few rules on what constitutes "made in" - does it say on a Doozy "made in Germany" does anyone know?

I agree that it doesn't matter where something is made if the end product is good, but their spiel is bullshit and if you can't see it then good luck crossing the road. Every Reverend "see's" the US headquarters for final set up but they don't claim "made in US" - I suspect that @Danny1969 is right that they go a bit further and fit hardware, spend more time on final assembly / set up, but I'd be absolutely amazed if they have woodworking and finishing in Germany.

How can I be so sure - because such a self-conscious company would shout it from the roof-tops rather than in non-specific e-mails to individuals.

Compare their spiel to that of the Shecter Custom Shop:

"To be 100% transparent, since we don't have a forest out back, we do purchase the highest quality tone woods from around the world. Canadian hard rock maple comes from our northern neighbor, Honduran Mahogany comes from Honduras, Australian Lacewood from Down Under and Indian Rosewood comes from India, not Indiana J. Our guitars start with solid hand selected hardwood billets sourced world wide for their specific tone and cosmetic properties. Our Maple neck blanks are harvested from the eastern United States as well as the cold regions of Canada for their stability and figure. All of our wood exotic and domestic is painstakingly researched for proper documentation and origin. We only deal with reputable and quality vendors with the highest standards and a long-standing history. This is lumber in its raw form just passed the harvest point and tempered. From here it is further seasoned, milled and turned into a beautiful "toneful" instrument one guitar at a time in our Southern California Facility by a hand picked team of craftsmen.

We also either manufacture or source from around the globe the highest quality components for our Custom Shop instruments. Here is a partial list:

Neck plate / control cavity plate- cut, powder-coated and engraved in Sun Valley, CA
Frets - material (imported from Germany) cut and installed in Sun Valley, CA
Vintage Tremolo and PT Bridge- Gotoh (Japan)
Floyd Rose tremolo (Germany and Korean parts)
HipShot Bridges (USA)
Schecter/HipShot locking tuners (So. Korea)
TonePros Bridge/Stop Tail (So. Korea)
GraphTech nuts (Canada)
3-way / 5-way Pickup 'Slider' Selectors (USA)
3-way Pickup toggle (Japan)
Strings- USA
Pickups- Schecter, EMG and Seymour Duncan (made in the USA from domestic and imported parts)

Due to our limited production (35-45 guitars per month) we purchase incidental parts (knobs / jack plates / screws /etc) from domestic suppliers like Stewart MacDonald, AllParts, and WD Music. These parts originate in Taiwan, Korea, Mexico and PRC.

Our instruments are also finished (painted) in our in-house facility utilizing materials and procedures that meet or exceed California's strict guidelines".

richardhomer · July 2017

dazzajl said:

Haters gonna hate hate hate hate, just shake it off @hotpickups ;;;;

I don't personally understand the hate caused by the origigin question or the need to for so much secrecy about it but I don't think you're going to change many minds on the subject.

Have a ball trying the Paloma today. I'm far more expecting to hear you've bought it than that I'll be seeing you tomorrow but it's good either way.

D

No one is 'hating' Duesenberg - your post is - if you'll forgive me for saying - typical of some nonsensical comments that proliferate on the internet. Try rereading the thread - literally no one has said Duesenbergs are bad guitars.

You acknowledge that they are 'secretative' about their origins - and that you don't see a need for it. Let me help you understand it. 'Most' Korean made guitars cost about half what a Duesenberg costs - if they said 'we have them made in Korea, then QC, screw a few parts on and set them up in Germany' - that would 'look' like a cheaper guitar in the marketplace. This is badge engineering - irrespective of the merit of the actual quality of the end product.

Just to clarify - none of the above constitutes 'hate' - it is an accurate reflection of the company's modus operandi. Whether you (as in 'one') thinks it's 'right' is a matter of personal judgement.

GuitarZero · July 2017

dindude said:

Danny1969 said:

You can state "made in" what ever country some bit of major manufacturing was completed in.

See, I don't think you can - most countries have at least a few rules on what constitutes "made in" - does it say on a Doozy "made in Germany" does anyone know?
I agree that it doesn't matter where something is made if the end product is good, but their spiel is bullshit and if you can't see it then good luck crossing the road. Every Reverend "see's" the US headquarters for final set up but they don't claim "made in US" - I suspect that @Danny1969 is right that they go a bit further and fit hardware, spend more time on final assembly / set up, but I'd be absolutely amazed if they have woodworking and finishing in Germany.
How can I be so sure - because such a self-conscious company would shout it from the roof-tops rather than in non-specific e-mails to individuals.

Ok, so I've played a number of Duesenbergs and none of them have ever had the 'Made in Germany' stamp as far as I am aware. That is probably because they aren't. As others have said they only finish them in Germany, which isn't the same thing. (Note that I have not played a brand new Doozy in the last 18 months since they removed the spiel about where their parts are made, so it's possible the newer ones do have the stamp, but I doubt it).

German manufacturing and engineering has always had a great reputation, so as you say, if they were made there, they would make a song and dance about it and plaster it all over their website. I did hear somewhere that Duesenberg are extremely conscious (and paranoid) about this subject and would like to bring the operation to Germany fully at some point. The idea was that they would start making a small number of guitars then ramp up the operation over time. I have no clue whether this has begun or even if it's something they are still thinking of doing.

What I find interesting from the e-mail that the OP got from Duesenberg is this quote (if indeed it is a direct quote):

'Rest assured every Duesenberg guitar is made/built by master craftsmen/Luthiers in Hannover, Germany.'

They have put made/built together. I dunno about others but to me made and built are separate. Made means actually crafted and built means someone put the parts together. Again it seems another of Duesenberg's little ways of muddying the waters around the actual details of how/where these guitars are crafted. A little honesty goes a long way and this whole situation is one of their own making.

Danny1969 · July 2017

You can see the facility in Germany on Youtube, the boxes of hardware, the Plec machine. I don't think it's a secret that they outsource the building of main components to other people.

At the end of the day it's only a problem if you feel the wood work done in Korea rather than Germany will affect the resale price .... personally I wouldn't care myself but others might.

Sassafras · July 2017

Sounds like they're paying 3rd world wages but charging 1st world prices and obfuscating the issue.
That doesn't sit too well with me no matter how cool & retro their guitars look.

Winny_Pooh · July 2017

^^^ I don't think they even finish them in Germany. The finishes are the first thing about them that scream "Korea" If they were nicely finished in Germany then very few people would assume they were made elsewhere.

Majorscale · July 2017

With @Winny_Pooh on this. As I said above my Starplayer TV had a thick poly finish all over it and as a result just felt a few rungs down from where the price point actually sits. I don't care where it is made if the end result is in relation to the price point - If it had a nicely done, thin nitro finish it would in my mind justify the price better. Add in a fatter neck and a shorter scale the Doozy would still be in my music room! Have no complaints about the hardware, tone, playability or looks though. An almost there instrument...

Majorscale · July 2017

They do sound good though:

hotpickups · July 2017

Just demo'd the Paloma but then I tried the double cat. Stunning I mean really stunning guitar. Nearly got my card out but I need to sleep on it.

freakboy1610 · July 2017

The Paloma looks amazing, as do the others pictured in this thread. TBH I couldn't care less where they are made, built or assembled. I would, however, be interested to learn what the OP @BGG thinks of the one he got.

hotpickups · July 2017

Winny_Pooh said:

^^^ I don't think they even finish them in Germany. The finishes are the first thing about them that scream "Korea" If they were nicely finished in Germany then very few people would assume they were made elsewhere.

You're wrong I'm afraid. They used to spray in Korea but they can do it th miemselves now at the Hannover factory. It must have been an older guitar you saw

Winny_Pooh · July 2017

hotpickups said:

Winny_Pooh said:

^^^ I don't think they even finish them in Germany. The finishes are the first thing about them that scream "Korea" If they were nicely finished in Germany then very few people would assume they were made elsewhere.

You're I'm afraid. They used to spray in Korea but they can do it themselves now at the Hannover factory. It must have been an older guitar you saw

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Duesenberg+Hannover+factory&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihj8a1pPLUAhXKBcAKHe43CBEQ_AUICCgD&biw=949&bih=638

I'm coming up empty

hotpickups · July 2017

Well at the end of the day this can go on forever

All I know is the guitars I demoed today i.e. a Double Cat, Paloma and a Caribou were of exceptional quality. I will even say they are the most comfortable guitars I have ever played. Isn't that what it should all be about. I'd pay their asking price because I have played other higher value guitars that didn't come near to the enjoyment of playing those Duesenbergs

Horses for courses innit

GuitarZero · July 2017

This is the only thing I've ever found on the Duesenberg factory.

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Any Duesenberg love on here ?

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