The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

octatonic

capo4th said:

equalsql said:

capo4th said:

What a crock! You send your kids to a private school and you bleet on here about having to pay levels of tax that are considerably more than most people earn as a main income. By anyone's measure you are wealthy, the fact that you think you're not shows just how deluded you are. Your posting on here indicates a level of arrogance and selfishness that is remarkable. I certainly dont believe you have the slightest concept of how real poverty effects people, its just 'me me me'.

What's your point?    

I own a house with a large mortgage does that make me wealthy?
I don't have huge savings accounts or large investments.
I pay my bills and choose to send my son to a good school which clears out most of my income.
I contribute to numerous charities and give back to my local community and understand what it is to be poor having been there.

I did consider Labours planned tax increases to be unfair. They would have had a big impact on my family which is why I voted Conservative.

So you put your personal financial affairs over the welfare of those less fortunate than you?
That isn't a crime but it is precisely what people criticise Conservative voters for.

I reckon we would have been £20k a year worse off under a Labour government but we aren't struggling and can afford it.
Without wishing to get accused of virtue signalling the reason why is because it IS only money and the Tory hard-Brexit/cut public services agenda just seemed morally wrong.

ICBM

It would be an unexpected twist if Davidson brought May down, but appropriate given that I'm sure almost all of the Tory vote in Scotland was for Davidson and not for May.

The irony is that after so many decades of claims - almost always wrong - that Labour only gets into power in London on the back of Scottish voters, that the exact opposite is now true... 

Fretwired

Well you knew the campaign was going against the Tories when Corbyn, who used to think the police were a tool of the fascist state, ran rings round May over police numbers, crime and security.

Jalapeno

Fretwired said:

Well you knew the campaign was going against the Tories when Corbyn, who used to think the police were a tool of the fascist state, ran rings round May over police numbers, crime and security.

Yep.

Shame Ruth Davisdon isn't a Westminster MP too.  She'd be great as PM

Fretwired

Jalapeno said:

Fretwired said:

Well you knew the campaign was going against the Tories when Corbyn, who used to think the police were a tool of the fascist state, ran rings round May over police numbers, crime and security.

Yep.

Shame Ruth Davisdon isn't a Westminster MP too.  She'd be great as PM

True. I think Davidson sees herself as a First Minister of Scotland. She's probably saved the Union, at least for now.

DarnWeight

Davidson is somewhat isolated from the swivel-eyed contingent that infest the Westminster party, so has the freedom to shape the branding of the Scottish Tories in more of an early-Cameron stylee (caring, sharing, hug-a-hoodie, etc.)  She would find it a far more difficult proposition to sell that to the parliamentary party south of the border, as the last seven years of Tory-led governments have pretty clearly illustrated.

Jalapeno

DarnWeight said:

Davidson is somewhat isolated from the swivel-eyed contingent that infest the Westminster party, so has the freedom to shape the branding of the Scottish Tories in more of an early-Cameron stylee (caring, sharing, hug-a-hoodie, etc.)  She would find it a far more difficult proposition to sell that to the parliamentary party south of the border, as the last seven years of Tory-led governments have pretty clearly illustrated.

Theresa May's first speech filled me with hope that we were in for a change at last, but the swivel-eyed contingent put paid to that more's the pity.

JezWynd

I've been impressed by May's husband standing by her, literally, over the past couple of days. She must be feeling pretty shitty at the moment with everyone piling on her, must be nice to know that you've got at least one person in your corner.

Philly_Q

Fretwired said:

Jalapeno said:

Fretwired said:

Well you knew the campaign was going against the Tories when Corbyn, who used to think the police were a tool of the fascist state, ran rings round May over police numbers, crime and security.

Yep.

Shame Ruth Davisdon isn't a Westminster MP too.  She'd be great as PM

True. I think Davidson sees herself as a First Minister of Scotland. She's probably saved the Union, at least for now.

She's the only potential leader (if she was actually eligible) who'd make me even consider voting Tory.

(Caveat:  I reserve the right to completely change my mind about that if/when we see a lot more of her and she turns out to be as big an ass as the rest of them.)

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

Bridgehouse said:

The last labour government wasn't exactly squeaky clean, and one particular PM did start an illegal war and should be in jail for being a liar and abusing his power for his own gain. Perhaps some Tories are finding it difficult to forget that.

Can't disagree with that. But it's important to remember that Corbyn stands against that and always has - even at the time - which is one of the main reasons he is so unpopular among the Blairites who still make up the bulk of the MPs. He's suggested that Blair could be sent to face war crimes charges if he became PM.

'New Labour' was not really Labour - they adopted a lot of Tory policy, Thatcher was Blair's political idol, and by almost any definition the party was to the right of centre economically as well as being authoritarian. Blair thought that in order to win power Labour had to do this, and the proof was that he won in '97 - but he was wrong, people were so sick of the Tories by then that they'd have voted for almost anything else.

Corbyn has now proved that a real, moderately left-wing Labour Party can win. If only his own parliamentary party had believed it and got properly behind him rather than hoping he'd lose so they could ditch him, maybe he would have...

Whilst I think we are in danger of violently agreeing, I do also think that we are arguing slightly different points.

You are making very good, well articulated points about why Corbyn has been moderately successful. However, I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of someone outside the Labour circle, someone who is at the very edge of the influence they have to gain to get into power. 

Most swing voters well outside of the labour heartlands won't give a stuff about old or new labour or any the like. It will be back to basics questions - do I trust you? Are you going to fuck me over? Will my taxes escalate? Do I trust you with the economy? Are you going to screw up the public sector?

My point is that most voters will make a judgement call based on the evidence they have. The result of this election has proven that Corbyn has not yet convinced enough people that the answers to all these questions are satisfactory.

Can he? I suspect undoubtedly he can. Why hasn't he yet? For many of the reasons you have given no doubt.

Will the Labour Party ever get its shit together and get behind him enough to get him into power? In my opinion, no - because they are as fractured as the tories, there are too many career politicians who want a pop at the top jobs, and there aren't enough real conviction politicians in there. 

This may change. But they have a small window I suspect, as the tories are about to reinvent themselves as the nice party and the saviour of the nation - just watch - May goes, someone nice and pleasant in who out-Jeremy's him and before you know it they have lost the impetus.

TTBZ

Can someone please explain to an idiot how this whole DUP thing is happening? I thought it was a Conservative/Labour coalition that was voted for, how and why has this now changed?

Philly_Q

Bridgehouse said:

This may change. But they have a small window I suspect, as the tories are about to reinvent themselves as the nice party and the saviour of the nation - just watch - May goes, someone nice and pleasant in who out-Jeremy's him and before you know it they have lost the impetus.

Crikey, I like the idea but who did you have in mind?  None of the current shower, that's for certain.  Are they allowed to recruit from outside?

http://mammon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/werthers.jpg

octatonic

No plans for a breakaway Scottish Conservative party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40232374

Octafish

It's going to interesting to see how long May can struggle on, being totally discredited and seriously weak. She now seems to be desperately and myopically hanging onto power, so desperate in fact that she's turned terrorist sympathiser to build her coaltion of chaos and is also looking to rely on Scottish MPs to prop her up, ohh the irony

Bridgehouse

Philly_Q said:

Bridgehouse said:

This may change. But they have a small window I suspect, as the tories are about to reinvent themselves as the nice party and the saviour of the nation - just watch - May goes, someone nice and pleasant in who out-Jeremy's him and before you know it they have lost the impetus.

Crikey, I like the idea but who did you have in mind?  None of the current shower, that's for certain.  Are they allowed to recruit from outside?

Lol. Nobody in mind at all. I suspect the PR gurus will be shouting "yoof, yoof " to get the younger voters back on board - just watch tuition fees drop in the future. 

I said that they would reinvent themselves as that - I didn't say they would actually elect a nice leader. This administration will now all be about neutering the Corbyn effect and out-honestying him. 

I suspect the 1922 committee will meet soon (if they haven't already) - will give May short shrift and will insist on a young, unknown, articulate puppet that they can mould into a "nice" person. 

JezWynd

Bridgehouse said:

This may change. But they have a small window I suspect, as the tories are about to reinvent themselves as the nice party and the saviour of the nation - just watch - May goes, someone nice and pleasant in who out-Jeremy's him and before you know it they have lost the impetus.

I can't think of a single person at the top of the Conservative party who remotely resembles the person you are imagining. Nice/pleasant and Tory aren't usually seen in the same sentence let alone the same room and modern politics isn't a career option for nice pleasant people.

Octafish

TTBZ said:

Can someone please explain to an idiot how this whole DUP thing is happening? I thought it was a Conservative/Labour coalition that was voted for, how and why has this now changed?

Not sure if you're being serious, if you are... we don't vote for a coaltion, we vote for a local representative and then the party with a majority of seats can form a government. If no party has a majority of seats, the one with the largest number is entitled to try and build a majority through cooperation and coaltion with other parties. We get no say in that coalition.

Octafish

octatonic said:

No plans for a breakaway Scottish Conservative party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40232374

"No plans", doesn't that usually mean we're not ready to announce it yet  

Bridgehouse

JezWynd said:

Bridgehouse said:

This may change. But they have a small window I suspect, as the tories are about to reinvent themselves as the nice party and the saviour of the nation - just watch - May goes, someone nice and pleasant in who out-Jeremy's him and before you know it they have lost the impetus.

I can't think of a single person at the top of the Conservative party who remotely resembles the person you are imagining. Nice/pleasant and Tory aren't usually seen in the same sentence let alone the same room and modern politics isn't a career option for nice pleasant people.

No, there isn't one. 

I suspect it it might be a junior minister or even a back bencher.

And even from them is there anyone nice? No, probably not.

Bit an unknown with no skeletons can be reinvented as a "nice" person who appeals to yoof by the spin doctors and the PR daleks. 

Of course, Murdoch et al will get on the bandwagon to claw back some of their investment.

Remember my point: The tories will create one, not that there is one in existence. 

John_P

If RD did form a breakaway party would that include any Westminster Scottish MP's?     Is that enough to take away the majority they gain from a deal with the DUP?