The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

ICBM

John_P said:

If RD did form a breakaway party would that include any Westminster Scottish MP's?     Is that enough to take away the majority they gain from a deal with the DUP? 

Yes. 13 vs 10.

scrumhalf

JezWynd said:

Bridgehouse said:

This may change. But they have a small window I suspect, as the tories are about to reinvent themselves as the nice party and the saviour of the nation - just watch - May goes, someone nice and pleasant in who out-Jeremy's him and before you know it they have lost the impetus.

I can't think of a single person at the top of the Conservative party who remotely resembles the person you are imagining. Nice/pleasant and Tory aren't usually seen in the same sentence let alone the same room and modern politics isn't a career option for nice pleasant people.

It's not just a Tory thing. It's impossible to become leader of one of the two major parties without being a total shit, albeit an effective political operator total shit.

As Jim Hacker said, you need good elbows to become leader.

ICBM

scrumhalf said:

It's not just a Tory thing. It's impossible to become leader of one of the two major parties without being a total shit, albeit an effective political operator total shit.

As Jim Hacker said, you need good elbows to become leader.

I genuinely believe Corbyn isn't a total shit. He never set out to lead his party and the fact that got there at all is an accident - if you'd asked him more than two years ago whether in June 2017 he would be Leader Of The Opposition, having come within 2% of the vote of being Prime Minister, I'm sure he would have assumed you were deranged, as everyone else in the country would have!

equalsql

What seems crazy to me is that after Brexit debacle with Cameron gone and the bitching between Gove and Bojo, the decision to choose May at the time seemed like the first sensible decision  to come out of Tory HQ.  

I don't like the Tories, bur even I was a bit relieved when she got the job and gave hints of cracking down on some of the extreme practices of the wealthy elite.
And.. then she pulls this election stunt, running an an abysmal, fear-mongering,wholly negative campaign, with zero enthusiasm and completely undermines herself, destroying any credibility she had.
Just an amazing turn of events.

TTBZ

Octafish said:

TTBZ said:

Can someone please explain to an idiot how this whole DUP thing is happening? I thought it was a Conservative/Labour coalition that was voted for, how and why has this now changed?

Not sure if you're being serious, if you are... we don't vote for a coaltion, we vote for a local representative and then the party with a majority of seats can form a government. If no party has a majority of seats, the one with the largest number is entitled to try and build a majority through cooperation and coaltion with other parties. We get no say in that coalition.

Ah. I knew we didn't vote for a coalition I just assumed it was the two biggest parties/those with most seats that had to join, looks like I was wrong! And this is why I don't get involved with politics threads haha

Fretwired

John_P said:

If RD did form a breakaway party would that include any Westminster Scottish MP's?     Is that enough to take away the majority they gain from a deal with the DUP? 

Yes the Scots MPs who got elected - it would be like Scottish Labour, not a new party but, if we are talking about a business, a different division with its own management. Davidson would still support May on day to day business but I've been told she won't back a hard Brexit or a deal without access to the single market as that's what the Scottish electorate voted for - she won't be May's stooge.

The Telegraph usually has some excellent sources - there's no smoke without fire. Could be Davidson's been told May's about to go so is keeping her powder dry.

Jalapeno

equalsql said:

What seems crazy to me is that after Brexit debacle with Cameron gone and the bitching between Gove and Bojo, the decision to choose May at the time seemed like the first sensible decision  to come out of Tory HQ.  

I don't like the Tories, bur even I was a bit relieved when she got the job and gave hints of cracking down on some of the extreme practices of the wealthy elite.
And.. then she pulls this election stunt, running an an abysmal, fear-mongering,wholly negative campaign, with zero enthusiasm and completely undermines herself, destroying any credibility she had.
Just an amazing turn of events.

Wis'd.  Nails it.

Fretwired

equalsql said:

What seems crazy to me is that after Brexit debacle with Cameron gone and the bitching between Gove and Bojo, the decision to choose May at the time seemed like the first sensible decision  to come out of Tory HQ.  

I don't like the Tories, bur even I was a bit relieved when she got the job and gave hints of cracking down on some of the extreme practices of the wealthy elite.
And.. then she pulls this election stunt, running an an abysmal, fear-mongering,wholly negative campaign, with zero enthusiasm and completely undermines herself, destroying any credibility she had.
Just an amazing turn of events.

She didn't run it .. that was the problem. She had two advisers who convinced her that destroying Jeremy Corbyn was a smart move. It wasn't. It was 'vote for me' ... 'you can't trust Corbyn' .. add some sound-bytes and it alienated floating voters. Corbyn didn't retaliate - he just banged out his strap line 'For the many not the few' and promised a fairer society, no uni fees, more cash for public services and an end to austerity. He also attacked the Tories for cutting 10,000 policemen and then along came IS. May looked weak on security.

May should have fought the election on the economy, had a manifesto with some real polices and attacked Labour for their expensive wish list. Rolled out her team and she'd have won.

ICBM

equalsql said:

What seems crazy to me is that after Brexit debacle with Cameron gone and the bitching between Gove and Bojo, the decision to choose May at the time seemed like the first sensible decision  to come out of Tory HQ.

It was the only possible choice, once Boris bottled it - the other candidates were even more laughable than she was.

I've never thought she was competent, honest or decent - her track record as Home Secretary was one of poor decision-making, constant arrogance and antagonism, and borderline fascist. I couldn't understand why she was ever mentioned as a potential future leader.

This is not wisdom with hindsight - if you could be bothered to trawl back through my posts at the time (I can't!) it's what I said.

I've never thought she was a 'one nation' Tory regardless of that speech - she is elitist and divisive, and I never actually believed she was a Remainer either - to me, she's driven by personal ambition, and backstabbed her way to the top having deliberately hidden her true views on the EU because she assumed, like everyone else, that Remain would win and didn't want to tie herself to the losing side - then seized the opportunity when Cameron quit… and has now revealed herself as a hardline Leaver - her opposition to the EU is based on authority and control, not economics.

I gave her the benefit of the doubt when immediately after she took power, she ruthlessly fired many of her opponents who I detest even more - but the shine soon wore off that when she proved weak in every other way. She's a strong leader in terms of controlling her party, but incapable of leading or good decision-making in every other way, and in my opinion she will be disastrous if by some fudge she is still in charge when it comes to negotiating with the EU.

And through sheer hubris, she called an entirely unnecessary election with the aim of destroying Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party when it appeared she couldn't lose - but her campaign was a vacuous litany of arrogance, incompetence, and totally taking the electorate for granted. She lost.

She is without doubt the worst Prime Minister in living memory and she deserves to be put in the dustbin of history as quickly as possible. And that's saying something given the previous two.

Emp_Fab

We wouldn't be in this bloody mess if it wasn't for the pig-fucker.  He dangled the sparkly carrot of an EU referendum to get himself reelected.  That was the only reason he did it - power for himself and his party.  The British public were largely uninformed on the EU and were subjected to the most appalling bullshit and barefaced lies from both sides, and it ended up more like a crap-shoot than an electorate making an informed choice.  Pig-fucker thought it was never going to go against him (arrogance - again) and when it did, said "Oh shit....  it's all going to hit the fan now, I'm offski....".

In the cannibalistic melee for the prize of top dog, May wins.  However, that's not good enough for her...  she wants more that just the PM job, she wants loyalty and more support from the country so goes to the polls, arrogantly assuming that she will naturally get what she wants and so doesn't bother appearing in debates or making much of an effort at all.

Now - we're in limbo with a weak PM who doesn't actually believe in Brexit, held hostage by a handful of extremist lunatics, going in to negotiate what could be one of the most important agreements the UK has ever faced.....  and all because Pig Fucker wanted another ride on the big wheel.

Fretwired

Emp_Fab said:

We wouldn't be in this bloody mess if it wasn't for the pig-fucker. 

Any evidence this happened?

holnrew

I wonder if we're going to an end to neo-liberalism and the Tories get back one-nation. But actually doing it rather than saying that they are. Both Cameron and May made out that's that what they're like but then carried on with cuts and austerity and planned privatisation. There are some decent people among the party, quite why they identify as Tory post-Thatcher is beyond me, but they're there. 

ICBM

But equally, a Labour idiot who doesn't seem to know that he's part of the problem...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40231738

It's quite likely that if he and the Blairite nonentities who can't get over losing the argument within the Labour Party had got behind Corbyn and presented a united front, instead of sniping and hoping he'd lose badly enough to step down, we wouldn't even be having this conversation now because Corbyn would be in No.10.

Legionreturns

Her two advisors have now resigned, but then she had been "instructed" to sack them. Who's calling the shots now in Tory Towers? 

The one thing Tories ARE good at, is eating their own young. The next few days are going to be messy. Last man standing? 

scrumhalf

One of the problems with May was that she was, to a sgnificant extent, the Jim Hacker candidate for leadership. The problem was that, once there, she didn't lead.

There were a couple of instances on PMQs where I thought she might have shown a bit of personality (for all of his faults Cameron was a great act at PMQs) but she was generally too robotic.

AliGorie

Ah, yes - lest we forget EVEL oh the irony

tony99

Fretwired said:

Emp_Fab said:

We wouldn't be in this bloody mess if it wasn't for the pig-fucker. 

Any evidence this happened?

Indeed there is, why, Mr Porky himself attested to it on radio 4 last autumn.

Fretwired

tony99 said:

Fretwired said:

Emp_Fab said:

We wouldn't be in this bloody mess if it wasn't for the pig-fucker. 

Any evidence this happened?

Indeed there is, why, Mr Porky himself attested to it on radio 4 last autumn.

Although the author claimed it was untrue ...

marantz1300

she won't be leader soon.
the knives are out and sharp.
but we are still fucked
the nature of a tory is to be a self serving cunt.
they truly believe they are born to be in charge and to fuck everyone else for their own benifit

exocet

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56b0c0d6f699bb770fa8b7f7/t/58fe3c8c6b8f5bf31bd24050/1493056751291/&imgrefurl=http://www.redskyshepherdshuts.co.uk/blog/2017/4/24/david-cameron-and-red-sky-linked-by-charming-twist-of-fate&docid=t3PiicuGrHgzBM&tbnid=LBe7a8o9YCc8ZM:&vet=10ahUKEwjWs93ou7PUAhUKKcAKHcexAzwQMwgxKAEwAQ..i&w=1000&h=661&client=ms-android-h3g-gb&bih=590&biw=360&q=david cameron shepherds caravan&ved=0ahUKEwjWs93ou7PUAhUKKcAKHcexAzwQMwgxKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8