Are vintage guitars now just kudos/investment

jpfamps

Philly_Q said:

ICBM said:

jpfamps said:

Any guitar with frets so worn it can't be played is not original; it wouldn't have left the factory like that.

Exactly!

It really is the utter height of stupidity to believe that it's better to leave a nice old guitar virtually unplayable, or that a refret will "ruin" it. No guitar which has been played and the frets worn that much will be in perfect condition *anyway* even discounting the frets, so there is no reason to treat the frets as sacred either.

jpfamps said:

I think there is often a fear that the refret will be done badly, but that is a different issue.......

This certainly used to be a real and justified fear. These days, there are far more real experts who can do a job so good that the only real way you can tell they aren't the original frets is because they're too shiny and unworn.

What if you get a refret which isn't just a restoration?  I won't go so far as to suggest a re-radiused board, but let's say bigger frets or stainless steel frets.  Would that devalue a vintage guitar more than a like-for-like refret?

If the refret has been done sympathetically, then in my opinion, this should affect the price of the guitar.

In my opinion using slightly larger frets is fine, however massive jumbo frets would potentially devalue a vintage instrument.

Regarding re-radiusing the board, I've seen several rosewood board Fenders where the fretboard has been planed almost through to the maple, which in my opinion would reduce the value of the instrument.

crunchman

ToneControl said:

Really old acoustics are only useful as museum pieces, since they are essentially falling apart, and unlike violins, no one is playing 100+ year old guitars for their preferred tone
Electrics aren't old enough for that, and it will take them longer to deteriorate, but they will eventually.

In the meantime, it's supply and demand - really
1940s lap steels are very cheap compared to 1950s and 1960s electrics
As soon as fewer (alive) people affiliate with that era, and old collections are sold off when people pop their clogs, then I'd expect prices to drop rapidly, other than for exceptionally playable or rare guitars

The "classic" acoustic guitar designs didn't exist 100 years ago.  The 14 fret D18/D28 wasn't introduced until 1934.  I suspect that pre-war D28s will still be going for silly money in 20 years time.

Changing the subject slightly, when talking about dodgy shenanigans from vintage dealers, is it better now than it was 20 or so years ago.  With all the resources on the internet now, I hope I'd be able to do my research before buying, and I'd know enough to stop a dealer passing a 67 off as a 61 (to use an example above).

impmann

crunchman said:

ToneControl said:

Really old acoustics are only useful as museum pieces, since they are essentially falling apart, and unlike violins, no one is playing 100+ year old guitars for their preferred tone
Electrics aren't old enough for that, and it will take them longer to deteriorate, but they will eventually.

In the meantime, it's supply and demand - really
1940s lap steels are very cheap compared to 1950s and 1960s electrics
As soon as fewer (alive) people affiliate with that era, and old collections are sold off when people pop their clogs, then I'd expect prices to drop rapidly, other than for exceptionally playable or rare guitars

The "classic" acoustic guitar designs didn't exist 100 years ago.  The 14 fret D18/D28 wasn't introduced until 1934.  I suspect that pre-war D28s will still be going for silly money in 20 years time.

Changing the subject slightly, when talking about dodgy shenanigans from vintage dealers, is it better now than it was 20 or so years ago.  With all the resources on the internet now, I hope I'd be able to do my research before buying, and I'd know enough to stop a dealer passing a 67 off as a 61 (to use an example above).

TBH, I think its about the same.

The same crooks are still out there and the same dealers that turn a blind eye to questionable parentage are still dealing. You only have to spend a bit of time looking at eBay to see that the chancers are still trying it on too.

Wherever there is a quick buck to be made out of something being authentic, there will be someone trying to create that authenticity...

ICBM

peteri said:

Just for fun - and an example of the 'bad end'.

https://applink.reverb.com/item/7521249-fender-telecaster-1970

Safe to say, that's not genuine wear on the back!

Safe to say, the neck is completely fucked too! At the very least it will require some expert repair work to fix.

£2,500?!! One too many zeros I think.

57Deluxe

after I played any of my guitars they became 'vintage'!

GuyR

guitars4you said:

GuyR said:

It seems peculiar to me not to refret a guitar that needs it, or to make any other repair necessary to maintain satisfactory function. In particular, having very low frets would increase the wear on the fingerboard, which is a much more fundamental thing to replace, so a refret when required would seem a very prudent course of action. I recently had my '66 Tele refretted. To me sticking with the original spec fretwire, sourced from Fender, was important, but I understand it might not be to others.

I have bought 3 vintage guitars/basses in the last 18 months. If I am paying what I consider full money, they have to be;

1 A great player - what's the point otherwise?

2 100% original finish - plenty of wear is fine

3 Original pickups - I haven't bought any with rewinds, but would if the price reflected it.

That said, I'm always happy to buy a modified guitar if the price is too tempting

would tend to agree with that - any variations of the above points, mainly 2 and 3 should have a severe impact on the price as it becomes a players grade guitar and nothing wrong with this as an option - especially when the likes of @jumping@shadows has put his considerable skills to use

I bet your Tele found a new lease of life, certainly regarding playing performance, after the re-fret

Tele was very nice before, but with fret buzz that was always in the way. It's absolutely lovely now. It's got a couple of other minor changes; a pot, switch and one tuner replaced with an identical period one that I wouldn't have even noticed had the seller not disclosed it. Paid about £5400 a year ago. Couldn't care less what prices do. If they go up, I can feel pleased I bought at a good time, if they go down, I can afford another one or two. Like many other contributors here, I love quality vintage basses/guitars. I'm not looking for the PRS or JEM experience.

peteri

Looking more at the bay listing (and sorry for thread highjack).

Pretty obvious refinishing on the back? Looks like a heel break?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1962-Gibson-SG-Les-Paul-Standard/401437902584?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

4th and 5th pictures, something just doesn't look right?