Video Killed the Video Star [A sort of Chappers Story]

Jez6345789

I don't really want to start another the right or wrongs of Chappers thread but as I have said for lack of better to do over a long Christmas shutdown I ended up following the Rob Chapman video accusations and counter-accusations as much as anything out of a morbid curiosity and also how a business success story goes so wrong.

What I have found more interesting is because I watched the three or four going on over the December/Jan Period I am now getting endless other commentaries and follow up from Video Channels I have neither liked followed or whatever so effectively auto-generated by some google algorithm that feeds me more of the same.

So I suppose the real question is if you fall from grace on social media does the machine then consume you and it becomes the death of a thousand cuts as more and more people hear the negativity about you and does regardless of right or wrong that weight of negative information becomes fact.

Just interested as I got 4 new videos on the subject last night rehashing most of the old stuff

professorben

Subs/views bandwagon. 

roberty

There's probably a separate rabbit hole saying exactly the opposite

Fifty9

I saw one myself yesterday and I only half watch 2 of the videos on the matter. But I expect you’re right when it comes to the algorithms only further embedding the perception that he’s Donald ducked even if it’s not actually true. ‘Online power’ working very much against in this sense and sticking the boot into the guy when he’s down. Haven’t seen anything of him on andertons either lately. Could just be my feed tho. 

soma1975

There's a lot of talk about his business gone wrong like he is Gerald Ratner. Truth is he now has his guitars being sold in Guitar Center with 8 squllion stores and a customer base that knows sod all and trusts the salesperson.

I bet the overall profit on a Chapman sold at Andertons is incredibly high considering. Probably a single cheap guitar sale nets them more than a couple of Fender Cs sales.

News of their demise seems to be greatly exaggerated. By pricks on youtube. 

Musicman20

I don't know where these people get time to care to be honest. 

Some of these backlash videos are pretty nasty, personal and must have taken hours and hours to produce. 

I am not a fan of most online guitar sales people, apart from the odd few or those that seem genuinely awesome. E.g. Andy ex PGS.

DrJazzTap

"Do you wish you could play awesome amazing blues solos over any key at the drop of a hat?"

Probably the same algorithm that pops that crap ad up for me.

Funkfingers

Nothing travels more quickly than bad news. The Interweb is a conveniently anonymous location for a mass pile-on. No fear of receiving a real world thump up the conk! 

I have mixed opinions about Chapman - the man and the guitars. 

Moltisanti

it's a natural evolution of social media - because it's new we've never seen this before but it's no different than what happens in tabloid media.

People become famous (for whatever reason), become popular, then other people start scrutinising them and looking for a story to generate interest/clicks/views/money.

Traditional media doesn't cover online personas much (yet), so the backlash happens on the platform where the person is known.

All this will be analysed in 30 years with great interest.

Modellista

soma1975 said:

There's a lot of talk about his business gone wrong like he is Gerald Ratner. Truth is he now has his guitars being sold in Guitar Center with 8 squllion stores and a customer base that knows sod all and trusts the salesperson.

I bet the overall profit on a Chapman sold at Andertons is incredibly high considering. Probably a single cheap guitar sale nets them more than a couple of Fender Cs sales.

News of their demise seems to be greatly exaggerated. By pricks on youtube. 

We're going to have to wait a while to see how Chapman guitar sales are trending.  Given that the initial popularity of the brand was based on Chapman's own persona, it's reasonable to assume that instead of 99% of interested parties liking him, when that drops to 50% actively disliking him (as evidenced by downvotes and comments on his most recent videos), that reduction in popularity will harm sales of guitars.  

The guitars were already in Guitar Center before this all blew up.  If sales drop by a significant level, there is a risk of them dropping the line.  Assessing the scale of that risk is subjective, but it's real nonetheless.

It's still early days to work out whether this has truly damaged Chapman or not.  It's not something that will happen overnight.  As was pointed out in the video that set this ball rolling, they owe half a million quid, and are owed £300k.  The books do balance because they have some cash in the bank but if the creditors get jittery it could go sour very quickly.

Finally, I'd be interested to hear from someone like @guitars4you what a rough profit margin on a CS Fender is.  However common sense dictates there is considerably more profit in two sales of £3000 than there is in one sale of £500.

hollywoodrox

I always enjoyed his chappers and captain video reviews . Not a huge fan of the guitars as I like glossy bright color 80s stuff and Les Paul’s .

I was surprised at the people making videos about him though. It’s almost like when the media  like red top newspapers turn on people  but you expect that sort of behaviour from them.

It does seem like a blatant way to ride the coat tails of someone’s unpopularity  for views and likes 
and just seems like a lot of girly whinging and backbiting  but even more boring .

I will miss the chappers and captain buffoonery if it is no more.

thegummy

Funkfingers said:

Nothing travels more quickly than bad news. The Interweb is a conveniently anonymous location for a mass pile-on. No fear of receiving a real world thump up the conk! 

I have mixed opinions about Chapman - the man and the guitars. 

It's kind of like road rage, how so many people from teenage girls to posh wimpy men will honk and shout so obnoxiously at people for making mistakes or when they think something is someone else's fault.

They wouldn't even dream of acting like that to anyone in person but in their car they feel safe and that the person will never find out who they are.

Same idea with the internet, I doubt many would be so hateful of someone in person but cowards find safety in anonymity.

Philtre

hollywoodrox said:

I will miss the chappers and captain buffoonery if it is no more.

I won't miss the "widdley, widdley, wheee!" licks. After a million times, you know...

soma1975

Modellista said:

soma1975 said:

There's a lot of talk about his business gone wrong like he is Gerald Ratner. Truth is he now has his guitars being sold in Guitar Center with 8 squllion stores and a customer base that knows sod all and trusts the salesperson.

I bet the overall profit on a Chapman sold at Andertons is incredibly high considering. Probably a single cheap guitar sale nets them more than a couple of Fender Cs sales.

News of their demise seems to be greatly exaggerated. By pricks on youtube. 

We're going to have to wait a while to see how Chapman guitar sales are trending.  Given that the initial popularity of the brand was based on Chapman's own persona, it's reasonable to assume that instead of 99% of interested parties liking him, when that drops to 50% actively disliking him (as evidenced by downvotes and comments on his most recent videos), that reduction in popularity will harm sales of guitars.  

The guitars were already in Guitar Center before this all blew up.  If sales drop by a significant level, there is a risk of them dropping the line.  Assessing the scale of that risk is subjective, but it's real nonetheless.

It's still early days to work out whether this has truly damaged Chapman or not.  It's not something that will happen overnight.  As was pointed out in the video that set this ball rolling, they owe half a million quid, and are owed £300k.  The books do balance because they have some cash in the bank but if the creditors get jittery it could go sour very quickly.

Finally, I'd be interested to hear from someone like @guitars4you what a rough profit margin on a CS Fender is.  However common sense dictates there is considerably more profit in two sales of £3000 than there is in one sale of £500.

There's a lot more profit in guitars where you own the company and look after manufacturing, endorsements, distribution and set the prices etc. They are getting a chunk of every bit of the guitar's journey, as opposed to the CS Strats. 

As for the rest it is pure speculation. Guitar Center caters to a huge market of people who don't know what they want to buy and who certainly don't give a shit  about people in their basement bad mouthing someone else. 

Is there any evidence behind the idea of downvotes ever being the cause of lost sales? Look how many people still buy Vertex and have no idea of his various frauds. Let alone the ones who do know but don;t give a toss. 

Not everyone pays attention to silly people shouting on the internet. Likewise everyone is still buying Gibson. 

Sassafras

Jealousy!
That's the only way to explain it.
(Or so everyone says).

octatonic

Oh goodie, another Chappers thread.

steer

The two really long threads that were previously shut down about this pretty much covered this subject, surely? 

tony99

steer said:

The two really long threads that were previously shut down about this pretty much covered this subject, surely? 

They didn't have the snappy title of this one though, which is, I believe, why it was created.

monquixote

If the products are good it won't matter longer term if he continues to be a social media celebrity.

He's getting a bit long in the tooth now so endorsing the next generation like Rob Scallion is probably a good call.

Most people don't know who Les Paul is but it doesn't matter now.

Modellista

soma1975 said:

Modellista said:

soma1975 said:

There's a lot of talk about his business gone wrong like he is Gerald Ratner. Truth is he now has his guitars being sold in Guitar Center with 8 squllion stores and a customer base that knows sod all and trusts the salesperson.

I bet the overall profit on a Chapman sold at Andertons is incredibly high considering. Probably a single cheap guitar sale nets them more than a couple of Fender Cs sales.

News of their demise seems to be greatly exaggerated. By pricks on youtube. 

We're going to have to wait a while to see how Chapman guitar sales are trending.  Given that the initial popularity of the brand was based on Chapman's own persona, it's reasonable to assume that instead of 99% of interested parties liking him, when that drops to 50% actively disliking him (as evidenced by downvotes and comments on his most recent videos), that reduction in popularity will harm sales of guitars.  

The guitars were already in Guitar Center before this all blew up.  If sales drop by a significant level, there is a risk of them dropping the line.  Assessing the scale of that risk is subjective, but it's real nonetheless.

It's still early days to work out whether this has truly damaged Chapman or not.  It's not something that will happen overnight.  As was pointed out in the video that set this ball rolling, they owe half a million quid, and are owed £300k.  The books do balance because they have some cash in the bank but if the creditors get jittery it could go sour very quickly.

Finally, I'd be interested to hear from someone like @guitars4you what a rough profit margin on a CS Fender is.  However common sense dictates there is considerably more profit in two sales of £3000 than there is in one sale of £500.

There's a lot more profit in guitars where you own the company and look after manufacturing, endorsements, distribution and set the prices etc. They are getting a chunk of every bit of the guitar's journey, as opposed to the CS Strats. 

As for the rest it is pure speculation. Guitar Center caters to a huge market of people who don't know what they want to buy and who certainly don't give a shit  about people in their basement bad mouthing someone else. 

Is there any evidence behind the idea of downvotes ever being the cause of lost sales? Look how many people still buy Vertex and have no idea of his various frauds. Let alone the ones who do know but don;t give a toss. 

Not everyone pays attention to silly people shouting on the internet. Likewise everyone is still buying Gibson. 

I agree I'm speculating, I was very careful to point out the scale of the risk to Chapman Guitars over this fiasco is subjective.  Am I right in thinking your position is the risk is 0%?  I think it's quite a bit higher than that.

They don't own the manufacturing facility, and there is no distribution.  Chapman Guitars is basically a drop-shipping operation.  They pass on their orders to the manufacturer, who delivers directly to the customer.  Their headstock design is moderately distinctive, otherwise the guitars are standard fare, with very similar models available from any number of manufacturers, often made in the same factory.

The only value they add is the name "Chapman" on the headstock, and perhaps endorsements (although the only endorsee I can name that doesn't actually own the company, Rabea, is Chappers' mate, not a value-adding endorsee in the conventional sense).  At the risk of repeating myself, if the Chapman name becomes a negative value prospect, their business will suffer.  I don't believe this to be a particularly controversial statement.

Chapman was the first "internet guitar brand" that I'm aware of - the popularity of the brand was directly linked to his online persona and the Chapman forum where the collaborative design happened.  Bearing that in mind, I really cannot agree that what happens on the internet has no effect on the business.

soma1975

Next to no effect on Guitar Center's business with them I'd imagine. Riff City if he was still with them for sure as it was very 'internet sensation'. GC is for people who know nothing to be led by the nose and told this Chapmen is as good as an Ibanez.