Home Brewing (Complete Noob)

RedRabbit

Just kegged the kveik pilsner after cold crashing since Wednesday.

Took a sample to have a look at clarity (there are reports of skare not clearing easily) and have a pre-carbonation taste.  There's a very slight antiseptic taste to it.  Its not strong, if I hadn't smelt it first I'm not sure I'd have picked up on it, but it's still a little concerning.  Hoping it's just the steriliser as I mixed it a little strong for soaking the glassware and small parts.

Going to leave it to carbonate for a week and will have another taste.

Planning a smaller batch brew later today.  Going to be another kveik but I'm not sure whether to have another go at an IPA recipe I've tweaked or to try a witbier (I think voss should work well for that).

RedRabbit

Ended up not having time for a brew at the weekend so it's on now.  Went with the witbier in the end.  Hoping the kveik will mean that it's ready for a BBQ in a couple of weeks.  Fermentation fridge is already sat at 35°c so I'm hoping to get a lot of the orange flavours off the Voss.

hywelg

RedRabbit said:

Just kegged the kveik pilsner after cold crashing since Wednesday.

Took a sample to have a look at clarity (there are reports of skare not clearing easily) and have a pre-carbonation taste.  There's a very slight antiseptic taste to it.  Its not strong, if I hadn't smelt it first I'm not sure I'd have picked up on it, but it's still a little concerning.  Hoping it's just the steriliser as I mixed it a little strong for soaking the glassware and small parts.

Going to leave it to carbonate for a week and will have another taste.

Planning a smaller batch brew later today.  Going to be another kveik but I'm not sure whether to have another go at an IPA recipe I've tweaked or to try a witbier (I think voss should work well for that).

Do you treat your water for chloramines?  Half a Camden tablet per 25l has worked for me, never had an antiseptic tasting brew. Starsan is by far the best steriliser as it's so simple. I mix it in Tesco Ashbeck water as it lasts longer, if you can get RO or distilled water it's even better in those.  Don't confuse sterilising with cleaning though. I use PBW for cleaning, kegs get a long soak in it on brewday using the hot water coming out of the chiller.

RedRabbit

I'm not on mains water so doubt there's any chlorine in it and I've not had any issues like this before.  The water is pumped into the house from a large butt and it filtered a couple of times before it gets to the taps.

I've been using chemsan for sterilising and a combination of PWB and barkeepers friend for cleaning.  I'm going to move to starsan if it's available again.  I've not had any problem with ChemSan but starsan does seem to be the standard and I'm assuming there's a reason for that.

Hopefully the off taste will just be the strong chemsan I used on the sample jar so won't have come in contact with what went in the keg.  I'll sample on Saturday and will report back.

RedRabbit

Curiosity got the better of me and I just pulled a pint of the kveik lager. 

No sign of any medicinal taste now.  I think it may have been some of the flavours from the kveik I was picking up on.  I don't think the skare is quite as clean fermenting as I believed (or what I used wasn't actually skare).  The beers is pretty much just pilsner malt and saaz but has a slight, soft orange taste not too dissimilar to Hoegaarden.  Don't think there's much chance of it clearing so it looks pretty similar to a witbier as well.

It's not what I was hoping for but it's still pretty good.

duotone

RedRabbit said:

Curiosity got the better of me and I just pulled a pint of the kveik lager. 

No sign of any medicinal taste now.  I think it may have been some of the flavours from the kveik I was picking up on.  I don't think the skare is quite as clean fermenting as I believed (or what I used wasn't actually skare).  The beers is pretty much just pilsner malt and saaz but has a slight, soft orange taste not too dissimilar to Hoegaarden.  Don't think there's much chance of it clearing so it looks pretty similar to a witbier as well.

It's not what I was hoping for but it's still pretty good.

@RedRabbit ;
You basically made what I am trying to achieve when I started this thread!

Glad it turned out good, but I guess it’s frustrating when it didn’t go as planned. Still a tasty beer at the end of it can’t be bad.

RedRabbit

It's not that frustrating as I was kind of playing around with yeast to see what it could add to the brew.  It just hasn't quite done what I'd expected.  I've still got a nice, light beer to enjoy on a hot day though.

I've got a small batch of witbier (actually with wheat this time) fermenting at the moment.  It's another kveik yeast but this one is known for adding a spicy orange flavour.  Given its already had a good dose of coriander and orange peel it could be a citrus bomb. 

RedRabbit

Just bottled the witbier.  It was a good reminder of why I moved to kegs - bottling is a huge faff. 

Forgot to take a sample but there was a distinct orange aroma as I cleaned out the fermenter.

This kveik in unbelievable stuff.  Fermentation for both beers was done in under 3 days.  Even with a couple of days cold crashing I've been bottling/kegging after 5 days.

Don't know if it's just the strains I've tried but clarity isn't a strong point and the sediment in the fermenter is a lot looser (possibly just due to the short amount of time it's in there?) meaning loss to trub is higher.  I'll be using it again but the next brew will be back to a more traditional yeast.

Today's brew will be a tweak on the first IPA did a few months ago.  Hoping for a clearer beer with less bitterness.  I'll also be dropping the ABV and will be dry hopping with Citra and Mosaic.

RedRabbit

Slight error with today's brew.  Misread the recipe as 2.7kg of pale malt rather than 2.17kg.  Thought the gravity reading was high.  Going to end up with a 6.7% beer rather than the 5.1% I was aiming for.

duotone

Balls! I’ve left it so long that my yeast is just over 4 months old. Worth doing a 5Litre batch of brew to see if it works or just accept I’ve left it too long & buy another pack? (Costs about £10)

RedRabbit

duotone said:

Balls! I’ve left it so long that my yeast is just over 4 months old. Worth doing a 5Litre batch of brew to see if it works or just accept I’ve left it too long & buy another pack? (Costs about £10)

Is it dried or liquid?  Where has it been kept?

Chances are it'll be fine.  Dried yeast in particular stays valid for ages.

duotone

RedRabbit said:

duotone said:

Balls! I’ve left it so long that my yeast is just over 4 months old. Worth doing a 5Litre batch of brew to see if it works or just accept I’ve left it too long & buy another pack? (Costs about £10)

Is it dried or liquid?  Where has it been kept?

Chances are it'll be fine.  Dried yeast in particular stays valid for ages.

It’s liquid yeast, I put it in the fridge the day it was delivered. 

https://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/yeast-types/belgian-ale/whiteout/

RedRabbit

duotone said:

RedRabbit said:

duotone said:

Balls! I’ve left it so long that my yeast is just over 4 months old. Worth doing a 5Litre batch of brew to see if it works or just accept I’ve left it too long & buy another pack? (Costs about £10)

Is it dried or liquid?  Where has it been kept?

Chances are it'll be fine.  Dried yeast in particular stays valid for ages.

It’s liquid yeast, I put it in the fridge the day it was delivered. 

https://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/yeast-types/belgian-ale/whiteout/

Liquid yeast does tent to degrade more.  You've probably still got live yeast in there but the live cell count will be hugely reduced.  The Brewer Friend yeast starter calculator actually suggests that you'll have no viable yeast cells if I set the manufacture date to 01/04/2020.  If you've got the means to make a starter to see if there's any life in it I'd suggest doing that (1 litre water + 100g dried malt extract boiled and allowed to cool, pitch yeast and aerate).  If not it may be safer to just buy a new pack when you are ready to brew.

duotone

RedRabbit said:

duotone said:

RedRabbit said:

duotone said:

Balls! I’ve left it so long that my yeast is just over 4 months old. Worth doing a 5Litre batch of brew to see if it works or just accept I’ve left it too long & buy another pack? (Costs about £10)

Is it dried or liquid?  Where has it been kept?

Chances are it'll be fine.  Dried yeast in particular stays valid for ages.

It’s liquid yeast, I put it in the fridge the day it was delivered. 

https://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/yeast-types/belgian-ale/whiteout/

Liquid yeast does tent to degrade more.  You've probably still got live yeast in there but the live cell count will be hugely reduced.  The Brewer Friend yeast starter calculator actually suggests that you'll have no viable yeast cells if I set the manufacture date to 01/04/2020.  If you've got the means to make a starter to see if there's any life in it I'd suggest doing that (1 litre water + 100g dried malt extract boiled and allowed to cool, pitch yeast and aerate).  If not it may be safer to just buy a new pack when you are ready to brew.

Cheers @RedRabbit ;
Will just order a new pack. I could do with some other bits & pieces too like a Fermenting Bucket 
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/30-litre-fermenting-bucket/

duotone

hywelg said:

duotone said:

RedRabbit said:

duotone said:

RedRabbit said:

hywelg said:

duotone said:

Brought a couple bottles of the Mosaic IPA upto a mates house yesterday & they really enjoyed it. Comments like “I’d be happy with that if I’d ordered it in a pub!” Am happy with that for a 1st attempt.

Roll onto trying that Hoegaarden brew in the next couple weeks. Think I will get another Demi-John and do a 10 Litre brew this time.

Scale up to 25l. Anything less and you'll never have enough beer. Corny kegs are the way to go. 

And yes, pretty much every beer I've brewed has been as good as or better than what you'll get in a decent pub. 

Moving to corny kegs has drastically increased how much I enjoy brewing.  I used to hate bottling day.  The idea of cleaning and sanitising 40+ bottles and then filling them one by one was a big part of why I stopped brewing for a few years.

I still do 5l batches for testing recipes and I don't mind bottling those but I think a move to swing top bottles has played a part there as well.  I do quite fancy a couple of mini kegs for the small batches though.

Do you know if these kegs are reusable? Recently finished a Doom Bar one for a mates birthday & that would save me buying another Demi-John.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/300346754

Do you mean for fermenting in?  They can probably be repurposed for that but I don't know how much of a faff it would be.  A lot will depend on how easy they are to clean and whether you can keep it covered or fit an air lock to it.

If you mean for storage and serving from then it would seem the answer is a very useful "it depends".  I'll see if I can find the discussion on it I read on another forum.  There's a decent chance the doombar keg was mentioned.

Yeah @RedRabbit I was thinking for storage & serving. Thinking about it I won’t really be able to get in there to properly clean it out.

Cleaning out isn't really the problem its pre-carbonating and re-sealing afterwards.  These are not cask conditioned kegs.  Cleaning with hot water and PBW will do a thorough job. Sterilise with Starsan.

You then need a corny keg to carbonate your beer in, ideally in a chiller at 1-2°C. Calculating the CO2 volumes isn't simple.  Far better to get one of these.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07K1H5ZL3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And one of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Steel-Keg-Growler-Spear-Dispenser-for-Beer-growler-2L-3-6L-5L/362489744391?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Plus a CO2 supply with regulator.  Carbonate in mini-keg. Serve. Repeat.

I use a 19l corny and do presurised transfers to mini-keg for my sons . They have CO2 fire extinguishers (without dip tubes) for gas.

Once you get a few decent beers brewed you'll be confident that the money invested won't be wasted. I've spent serious money on gear but in return I've had (and given away to friends and family) hundreds of litres of excellent beer. Planning to upgrade to a 70l fermenter soon so I can brew 3 keg batches.

Am tempted to follow this advice now @hywelg ;
I know this is out of stock atm, but do you think this would work ok? https://www.home-brew-online.com/equipment-c40/kegland-2-litre-growler-drafto-and-regulator-kit-p3656

RedRabbit

duotone said:

hywelg said:

duotone said:

RedRabbit said:

duotone said:

RedRabbit said:

hywelg said:

duotone said:

Brought a couple bottles of the Mosaic IPA upto a mates house yesterday & they really enjoyed it. Comments like “I’d be happy with that if I’d ordered it in a pub!” Am happy with that for a 1st attempt.

Roll onto trying that Hoegaarden brew in the next couple weeks. Think I will get another Demi-John and do a 10 Litre brew this time.

Scale up to 25l. Anything less and you'll never have enough beer. Corny kegs are the way to go. 

And yes, pretty much every beer I've brewed has been as good as or better than what you'll get in a decent pub. 

Moving to corny kegs has drastically increased how much I enjoy brewing.  I used to hate bottling day.  The idea of cleaning and sanitising 40+ bottles and then filling them one by one was a big part of why I stopped brewing for a few years.

I still do 5l batches for testing recipes and I don't mind bottling those but I think a move to swing top bottles has played a part there as well.  I do quite fancy a couple of mini kegs for the small batches though.

Do you know if these kegs are reusable? Recently finished a Doom Bar one for a mates birthday & that would save me buying another Demi-John.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/300346754

Do you mean for fermenting in?  They can probably be repurposed for that but I don't know how much of a faff it would be.  A lot will depend on how easy they are to clean and whether you can keep it covered or fit an air lock to it.

If you mean for storage and serving from then it would seem the answer is a very useful "it depends".  I'll see if I can find the discussion on it I read on another forum.  There's a decent chance the doombar keg was mentioned.

Yeah @RedRabbit I was thinking for storage & serving. Thinking about it I won’t really be able to get in there to properly clean it out.

Cleaning out isn't really the problem its pre-carbonating and re-sealing afterwards.  These are not cask conditioned kegs.  Cleaning with hot water and PBW will do a thorough job. Sterilise with Starsan.

You then need a corny keg to carbonate your beer in, ideally in a chiller at 1-2°C. Calculating the CO2 volumes isn't simple.  Far better to get one of these.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07K1H5ZL3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And one of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Steel-Keg-Growler-Spear-Dispenser-for-Beer-growler-2L-3-6L-5L/362489744391?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Plus a CO2 supply with regulator.  Carbonate in mini-keg. Serve. Repeat.

I use a 19l corny and do presurised transfers to mini-keg for my sons . They have CO2 fire extinguishers (without dip tubes) for gas.

Once you get a few decent beers brewed you'll be confident that the money invested won't be wasted. I've spent serious money on gear but in return I've had (and given away to friends and family) hundreds of litres of excellent beer. Planning to upgrade to a 70l fermenter soon so I can brew 3 keg batches.

Am tempted to follow this advice now @hywelg 
I know this is out of stock atm, but do you think this would work ok? https://www.home-brew-online.com/equipment-c40/kegland-2-litre-growler-drafto-and-regulator-kit-p3656

If 2 litre is big enough for you then it would work.  Personally, if it's for storage rather than easy sharing, I'd be looking at something bigger - either a 5l keg and dispenser like hywelg suggested or a full 19l corny keg depending on your batch sizes. 

I like the idea of the growlers for taking beer around to friends to share but I think they're a bit expensive for storage.

duotone

19L would be overkill for me tbh, but I agree 2L is too small. 5L would be better for me.
I’m just thinking that with the hassles that go with re-gassing & trying to find a local place willing to do it (from what hywelg said) that using the 16g threaded CO2 bulb That you have to buy separately might be a handy solution (Around 10 for £10 atm).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mosa-16g-Threaded-Cartridges-Gold/dp/B06XJ4Z6HR

RedRabbit

A CO2 canister would possibly last you years though I can confirm that finding somewhere that supplies them to the public can be a pain.

For how often they'd need replacing I think the little 16g cartridges could work out a lot more expensive though.

If it was me, I think I'd be looking at a 5l keg with a regulator that can take a 60l soda stream gas bottle.  The malt miller sell the regulator, the soda stream gas can be had off amazon.

Regulator
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/universal-co2-regulator/

Soda stream adapter
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/universal-co2-sodastream/

Soda stream gas
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005ERICB8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_W9pvFbW4PNFQW

duotone

Brilliant @RedRabbit ;
That does look like a much better value solution in the long run. Cheers!

RedRabbit

Just pulled the first pint of the saison I made a few weeks ago.  It's only been in the keg a week (I'm pretty impatient when it comes to conditioning) but it's already a very nice beer.  Probably the best I've made so far.

This weekend's brew is a NEIPA.  Something I've been wanting to do since I started doing this again but it seems to be one of the more difficult styles to get right.