Football - Euro 2020 Championship

RobDavies

As a Brentford fan, this gives me great hope for next season as there are several of our players who would walk into that England team. 

Southgate’s refusal to bring on DCL when Kane is so knackered tells you everything…. He clearly doesn’t rate him. So the decision to not select Watkins in the 26 is even more baffling. 

monkey42

RobDavies said:

As a Brentford fan, this gives me great hope for next season as there are several of our players who would walk into that England team. 

Southgate’s refusal to bring on DCL when Kane is so knackered tells you everything…. He clearly doesn’t rate him. So the decision to not select Watkins in the 26 is even more baffling. 

I remember saying some time ago that Southgate should have approached Vardy about just doing this one tournament with the proviso that if Kane aint doing it then Vardy would be the main man. 

GoldenEraGuitars

sev112 said:

Legionreturns said:

TeleMaster said:

I don't get why they can't break these teams down and why Kane is so absent. Scotland sat behind the ball for the last 30 mins and it is difficult to score against that, but I felt that they were beatable. Even though Scotland had a few chances they didn't have the quality to score. Not a huge threat and England should have done better.  

Derbies do bring the best out in the underdog so perhaps that was part of it. 

I think you may need a touch of realism with your red rose tinted glasses tbh. 

"Break them down?" 

Scotland were by far the better team. Had more attacking guile, organised and kept their shape and showed far more desire and ambition. 

They were the ones who were held, and unlucky not to break England down. 

This is a typical England team at a major tournament. Big money players that turn it on all season for their clubs, but look like they can't be arsed with international football. 

Well played Scotland, you probably did enough for all 3 points there. 

Wishful thinking don’t get you 3 points ,

Something the English media would do well to remember while beefing up a very average national football team. They may have £400m (?) or talent on the pitch but apparently when they play as a team they can’t make it happen. 

Interesting to read that the history of Scotland vs England was so close - 

England have won 48 times to Scotland’s 41 with 26 draws. 

Still, a rather dull game at best.

axisus

monkey42 said:

RobDavies said:

As a Brentford fan, this gives me great hope for next season as there are several of our players who would walk into that England team. 

Southgate’s refusal to bring on DCL when Kane is so knackered tells you everything…. He clearly doesn’t rate him. So the decision to not select Watkins in the 26 is even more baffling. 

I remember saying some time ago that Southgate should have approached Vardy about just doing this one tournament with the proviso that if Kane aint doing it then Vardy would be the main man. 

Nah. I don't give a toss for the modern players that don't want to play for England in case 'boo hoo, I may have to sit on the bench'. Glad to be rid of the Vardy's of this world, rich, spoilt and no pride in the 3 Lions.

joneve

MagicPigDetective said:

Souness was great tonight! Made Ian Wright sound like a fool. Well done Scotland, so much passion and great play. I've had so much fun watching clips of the Tartan Army. Awesome. Boogie Woogie!

 On the England front, I'm Welsh so commenting from the outside, (also a Liverpool fan), but I've been saying it from the start, I can't understand why Jordan Henderson is not in your team. He's done the lot, a big game player, box to box midfielder, a battler and a leader with a winning mentality. Unless he's not fit ( he must be by know, and maybe fresher and less exhausted than others), he should be in the team. England's midfield were awful tonight.

He’s got a niggling injury I believe. Provided we make the knock outs, him and Maguire are scheduled to return. 

rze99

England have been hyped up for some unknown reason as amongst the favourites. It’s baffling because for club sides they do have top players but the England Performance Anxiety Syndrome is a real thing. That’s what we saw. A failure of confidence under expectation. 

DiscoStu

Great effort by the team, and great effort by the fans

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/england-scotland-euro-litter-london-b1868778.html

phil_b

DiscoStu said:

Great effort by the team, and great effort by the fans

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/england-scotland-euro-litter-london-b1868778.html

yea Great effort making that bloody mess in the first place

why travel to London if you dont have a ticket during an ongoing pandemic

guitars4you

Host of points - England can often morph from un-stoppable champions to mediocracy with only 1 game between them 

I think the history and local derby was an issue last night and we see it in the PL as well not just at International level - Yes Scotland were the better team last night, but they have played 2 games and not scored, so will be very surprised if they are still in the competition by 11.59 next Tuesday night - And that is not a vindictive comment towards Scotland from an English man - I think they had a game plan to thwart and did it exceptionally well - But will it get them to the next stage ? - But they can be proud of their effort last night 

Yes England were predictive - Nothing new there - Yes slow build up - Again nothing new there - I think Gareth is a good guy but somehow he is 'steady' 

Sometimes, against a dogged team you need to change the approach play - Kane was not having a good game but equally was not offered any chances - With 20 mins to go I'd have brought on Calvert -Lewin on to support Kane - He offers a far bigger threat in the air, so we could try the 'Wimbledon' approach as required and ask different questions of their set-up - Hind sight is a great asset, but Grealish coming on with around 30 to go did not work, especially trying to dribble/pass thru' a tight back 5 and I had a gut feeling that he'd want to try to hard to prove a point

3-4-1-2 for the last 20 mins or so, with the 2 wing backs offering width/crosses would have been worth a try, with Rice or Phillips dropping back as the 3 (both do it for clubs) and Bellingham on for  So I'd have finished   

                    Stone, Phillips, Mings
      James   Bellingham  Rice   Shaw
                              Mount                (Swap Mount for Grealish maybe and/or have kept Fodden on)
                  Kane and Calvert Lewin


4 points already may well be enough to get us into the next stage, 5 points certainly will and 7 and we top the group - But how far can we go, when you look at the Italians who 3 years ago could not even qualify for the WC

MagicPigDetective

rze99 said:

England have been hyped up for some unknown reason as amongst the favourites. It’s baffling because for club sides they do have top players but the England Performance Anxiety Syndrome is a real thing. That’s what we saw. A failure of confidence under expectation. 

They’ve been hyped due to finishing 4th in the World Cup. However the only teams of note they beat were Columbia and Sweden, losing to Belgium twice. Meanwhile they had an easy qualifying group which didn’t test them.

Shrews

I will repeat what I said on the last page, because this is about winning a tournament, not just winning one game in the group stages.

We do not want to finish top of this group! 

Anybody who thinks it's a good idea to finish top of this group has the same mentality of every other England manager who have attempted a tournament win and failed.  The reason we haven't got out of second gear yet is because Southgate doesn't want us to get out of 2nd gear. Had the Scots scored yesterday we would've drawn 1-1, had they scored 2 it would've finished 2-2, had they scored 3 we'd have scored 3 in return! We don't want the hard games now, the hard games will be the last three. The quarters, semis and final. Now we just need to finish 2nd.

Meanwhile, three of our likely rivals: France, Portugal and Germany will have had three tough games before we get to meet them in those last three games. Just Spain and Italy to have concerns about. France may get through to the final because of their class, but will be too fatigued to win a final. Portugal and Germany will be out in the quarters or semi's for the same reason.

I hope we draw 0-0 against the Czech's, Kane starts on the bench and we play as laboured as we did against the Scots and Croats. Then I hope we notch it up a gear to beat the Swedes, albeit still laboured and hardly breaking sweat, and then get ready to perform in the last three games. Boring, boring England!  But just as we wan it...and need it!

Hammering any team now going full throttle, looking flashy, in world beating style, does nothing for the ultimate goal which is to win the tournament, not to win the group.

Portugal won it in 2016, they finished third in their group, in the new (current) format, which had provided the tournament with an additional game.

Portugal 1 Iceland 1
Portugal 0 Austria 0
Hungary 3 Portugal 3 (Hungary shocked, it nearly didn't going to plan, Ronaldo had to break sweat)

First or second they'd have faced England or Belgium. 3rd or 4th ranking in their '3rd place ranking' would've meant Wales or Croatia (they got Croatia). It was perfect tournament management.

Teams who win these tournaments aim to ease through the group stage, with no over-exertion, no injuries and no bookings, aiming to get a team they should beat in the 2nd round. Then crank it up for the three games that count. 

And yet here we are in England knocking our players and management for doing exactly that, even though as a country we have more reason than any other side to manage our placings effectively because of the widespread belief amongst pundits that our players play in the toughest league in the world, with the most games.

Whilst it is true that winning the group would see us play at Wembley in the 2nd round (but against France, Portugal, Germany) a 2nd place against Sweden (likely) will be played in Copenhagen. The winner of that goes to Russia, where it's unlikely we will play Russia and likely we play France, Portugal and Germany. In the other scenario we would go to Rome and likely play France, Portugal or Germany. In either scenario France, Portugal and Germany will have played three or more hard games by then. We have a better chance of beating them in the quarters, than we do the 2nd round.  And I guess Southgate would rather our chances against them in St.Petersburg rather than Rome. Get through those and it's Wembley for the semis and final (as long as Boris doesn't upset UEFA)

Come August we won't remember the snore draw against the Scots or even the game to come against the Czechs. We may not even remember beating the Swedes in the 2nd round. We will however remember the quarters, semis and finals.  

And for sure we will remember Southgate's tournament management ... or Boris fcking it up for us!

Gassage

A comment made on the match last night:

"Like Pink Floyd decades beforehand, it seems all Scotland needed to do was add a fella named Gilmour to their ranks to turn them from an incoherent mess into a coherent and impressive unit" 

(18 year old midfielder Billy Gilmour was man of the match on his national debut)

p90fool

@Shrews maybe we should all reconvene when they've beaten Sweden without breaking sweat. 

BintyTwanger77

Really really happy with a point, think we could’ve won it, first major championship in 23 years, patronisingly written off as a “championship” team, despite having CL winners and plenty of other top level talent on our side. Scotland played really well, held their form, Gilmour, O’Donnell, Hanley, Robertson, all played a blinder, just let down (in both games) by their finishing… Che Adams, sort it out, please. Croatia game at Hampden would of course be the perfect time/place to actually start scoring again. INTAE THUM, BOYS!! A point against the Auld Enemy was such a relief from the usual “Br*v*h**rt performance” glorious failure rubbish we’ve endured for so long.

Legionreturns

@Shrews that's hilarious! 

I admire your optimism! 

Jackobean

Shrews said:

I will repeat what I said on the last page, because this is about winning a tournament, not just winning one game in the group stages.

We do not want to finish top of this group! 

This is probably the biggest load of bollocks I've ever read, and disparages an excellent performance by the Scottish team.

Southgate isn't a tactical genius, that inept display was genuinely the best he could muster.
Failed Boro managers with a penchant for M&S waistcoats have no business managing England.

BintyTwanger77

Gassage said:

A comment made on the match last night:

"Like Pink Floyd decades beforehand, it seems all Scotland needed to do was add a fella named Gilmour to their ranks to turn them from an incoherent mess into a coherent and impressive unit" 

(18 year old midfielder Billy Gilmour was man of the match on his national debut)

To repeat what I said on “the other FB”, Scotland have only lost once in their last 18 games, so that bloke’s talking utter arse gravy. Talented side, not given enough credit. Need to learn how to finish chances for the Croatia game, though.

MagicPigDetective

@shrews so England are so good, they can decide the outcome of games themselves, if they want to win they just switch on the ‘world class’ button, if not they will only score if the opposition inconveniently scores. It’s a fair point about slow starters doing well in the end, but to think Southgate and England have that level of control (in close games where one piece if skill or bad luck or decision is decisive) is crazy! 

Shrews

@Jackobean ;

Opinions, opinions!  But we can't deny facts. England reached the semi-finals of the World Cup under Southgate. Portugal also did finish third in their opening group when they won this in 2016.

It's opinion as to whether Southgate is managing our performances to ease through qualification, but they are based on his success in 2018 and how Portugal performed in their campaign in the only other time the Euro's have been played in this format. 

The Scots played great, as have the Welsh, I hope they both qualify, but my opinion is fatigue will set in to prevent progress to the latter stages. 

Shrews

p90fool said:

@Shrews maybe we should all reconvene when they've beaten Sweden without breaking sweat. 

Well, we've got more of a chance of beating Sweden in the second round, than we do of beating France, Germany or Portugal.  We have more of a chance against one of those in St.Petersburg in the quarters when their hard games start to take a toll.

So, yeah, we'll see how it plays out. Hopefully we' finish 2nd with a bore draw and no bookings or injuries against the Czechs and a well controlled 1-0 boring, boring England against the Swedes.