Football - Euro 2020 Championship

Jalapeno

Lordy Spain are as bad as England ! That was a hard watch !

Heartfeltdawn

Bridgehouse said:

Nice to see Spain forcing a tactical draw so they have no chance of topping the group. 

That’s the right strategy, no?

The tactical penalty miss is the new false 9. 

underdog

Bridgehouse said:

Nice to see Spain forcing a tactical draw so they have no chance of topping the group. 

That’s the right strategy, no?

They needed to think this through, if everyone is aiming to finish second then surely you would have an easier draw by actually finishing first then?

MagicPigDetective

It’s clear that France are trying to finish 2nd, so they can have an easy draw against England, who might naively go and win a game againt the Czech’s

Bridgehouse

You guys know I wasn’t being serious with such a ludicrous suggestion, right? I mean, is it really a lower chance scenario that England are actually just shit?

Bridgehouse

Heartfeltdawn said:

Bridgehouse said:

Nice to see Spain forcing a tactical draw so they have no chance of topping the group. 

That’s the right strategy, no?

The tactical penalty miss is the new false 9. 

Hang on, so the likes of Pearce, Waddle and Southgate are actually heroes?

Legionreturns

Bridgehouse said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Bridgehouse said:

Nice to see Spain forcing a tactical draw so they have no chance of topping the group. 

That’s the right strategy, no?

The tactical penalty miss is the new false 9. 

Hang on, so the likes of Pearce, Waddle and Southgate are actually heroes?

Geniuses 

axisus

munckee said:

axisus said:

Shrews said:

Had the Scots scored yesterday we would've drawn 1-1, had they scored 2 it would've finished 2-2, had they scored 3 we'd have scored 3 in return! 

And there we have England fans in a nutshell. An incredible sense of entitlement ...

I think that’s not a very fair or accurate assessment of the views of most England fans. 

Yes, you are right of course, it is a minority, but a minority with a platform in the red tops.

TeleMaster

It's not unreasonable for fans to expect a certain level of performance considering the standard of players we have, the amount of success the same players have at club level and the amount of money spent on tickets and subscriptions etc. 

I don't think England fans expect to win the Euros or WC every time but to continually underperform unexplainably for decades, with players showing lack of effort, is just not acceptable. 

The media don't help, fans booing players before the game has even started is ridiculous, but for whatever reason England have been poor in tournaments for a long time.

sev112

Yes, that semi final in the last one was very poor 

TeleMaster

sev112 said:

Yes, that semi final in the last one was very poor 

Yea it was. Did you watch it? Outplayed by an ageing Croatian team. Did you think England played well in that tournament? Do you think they looked like they could win it at any point?

Perhaps they'll be more convincing this year. 

England have underperformed in every tournament since 1996 and while 2018 was fun, I don't think anyone can seriously say that they played well, even if the tournament resulted in a good run. 

Legionreturns

TeleMaster said:

I don't think England fans expect to win the Euros or WC every time but to continually underperform unexplainably for decades, with players showing lack of effort, is just not acceptable. 

I'd argue that if it's a consistent level for 60 years, it's not underperforming... that's just England's level. 

Our standard is clearly not as high as some people think, and neither is that of our players!

guitars4you

Legionreturns said:

TeleMaster said:

I don't think England fans expect to win the Euros or WC every time but to continually underperform unexplainably for decades, with players showing lack of effort, is just not acceptable. 

I'd argue that if it's a consistent level for 60 years, it's not underperforming... that's just England's level. 

Our standard is clearly not as high as some people think, and neither is that of our players!

I would not agree about the standard of our players - Since 66 we've had some great players - Hoddle, Gazza, Shearer, Keegan, Waddle, Currie, Marsh, Lineker, Barnes, Des Walker, Shilton, Rooney, Scholes etc etc etc - Some of these guys were under used - I think it has been a combination of inept managers in various ways - A poor game plan and as such we play with no identity - Playing good players out of position to get them in the team (Scholes was a classic example) - Managers having their favourites but they never ever did anything (Butch Wilkins springs to mind - the best guy I've ever seen at always passing sideways) - Germany over the same period rarely produce the worlds finest footballers , but they produce strong teams on a regular basis

But I would agree with your about the standard the team produces 

The common question now is do we need to play with Rice and Phillips as the 2 holding players - This limits other more 'attacking options' - But Southgate is to worried about our defence and feels this set-up protects them better - So trying to create a positive from a big negative, but in reality it is more bland - I'm a Leeds fan so naturally I'm pro Phillips, but playing him slightly more forward than Rice is not his clubs main position 

 IMO - Option 1 is to let one of these guys play as a 'sweeper' in a 3 man bag four - Beckenebauer style - with 2 attacking full backs - So        Stone  Phillips  Mings
                     James   Rice  Mount   Shaw
                                  Grealish  Foden 
                                        Kane 

Grealish and Foden to float and create as required 

Option 2        Walker   Stone  Mings   Shaw
                                         Rice
                Bellingham   Mount   Grealish   Foden
                                           Kane 

Option 2 is more exciting - But you know Southgate would not look at such a set-up

axisus

My personal feeling is that if we play positively and get the strategy right, and maybe have a slight 'run of the green', there is no reason why we couldn't win.

Will those things happen, er .......

What I hate is going out playing dull, defensive, tepid football. 

TeleMaster

Legionreturns said:

TeleMaster said:

I don't think England fans expect to win the Euros or WC every time but to continually underperform unexplainably for decades, with players showing lack of effort, is just not acceptable. 

I'd argue that if it's a consistent level for 60 years, it's not underperforming... that's just England's level. 

Our standard is clearly not as high as some people think, and neither is that of our players!

I'd say it's underperforming. A team is a collection of players. If those players are outstanding, and the team does not perform to the expected level then you can only say they're underperforming. 

England will smash teams and play excellently in qualifying and then play some of the same, or similar teams in the tournament and it goes to crap. 

I thought the performance against Croatia was decent. I felt Scotland played very well due to the rivalry and worked their socks off. The Czech game should be the one that gives us an idea of England's current state. 

Harry Kane came out today to dispel some rumours and defend the team. He shouldn't have to do that two games in. We shouldn't be too negative. 

munckee

axisus said:

My personal feeling is that if we play positively and get the strategy right, and maybe have a slight 'run of the green', there is no reason why we couldn't win.

Will those things happen, er .......

What I hate is going out playing dull, defensive, tepid football. 

That’s the nub of it really. I would rather go and play exciting attacking football and see how far we can get. Many would prefer we have mourinho in charge and try to win full games 1 nil. 

thecolourbox

I just think as a nation in general, not just football, England's mentality is not a winner's mentality. Very negative defeatist county that clings on to some imaginary "blitz spirit" nonsense that is usually invented and attributed to things after the fact. Largely we are not mentally though or determined enough to be winners.

In the football, the fact that the players do very well at club level but not at international level says to me two things - one, they are more motivated at club level (ie weitere the money is), and two, the managers at club level are also paid more (admittedly to do a job all year rather than a few matches every now and then and a tournament every couple of years) so you get better managers in a better situation to get the most out of the players.

Other teams like Germany don't always have the best standout players or the stars but they seem to care more and be motivated for the international game, or at least they are just more determined to win at whatever they are doing whether that's for the club side or the national side.

Sporting wise, I always think Tim Henman is the absolute quintessential archetype of English sport. Talented, likeable nice guy, occasionally surprises people, but ultimately would never actually win anything because he's too lightweight when it boils down to it

EricTheWeary

munckee said:

axisus said:

My personal feeling is that if we play positively and get the strategy right, and maybe have a slight 'run of the green', there is no reason why we couldn't win.

Will those things happen, er .......

What I hate is going out playing dull, defensive, tepid football. 

That’s the nub of it really. I would rather go and play exciting attacking football and see how far we can get. Many would prefer we have mourinho in charge and try to win full games 1 nil. 

If it was boring football that got results that’d be fine but it’s boring football that’s just about scraping along. I understand that it’s nonsensical in some ways but I’m sure many people would rather see a valiant loss than another dry 0-0. 

Grealish from the kick off please on Tuesday. 

TeleMaster

thecolourbox said:

Sporting wise, I always think Tim Henman is the absolute quintessential archetype of English sport. Talented, likeable nice guy, occasionally surprises people, but ultimately would never actually win anything because he's too lightweight when it boils down to it

I don't think this adds up. What about Lewis Hamilton? Ronnie O'Sullivan, Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury, Chris Froome, Mo Farah? There are plenty of English sportsmen and women who are dominating their field in team and individual sports. And that's just England. Open it up to the UK and could probably make the case that the UK is the dominant sporting nation in the world. Andy Murray, Rory Mcilroy etc. 

I don't think you can ignore all the amazing recent international sporting successes based on one tennis player and an underperforming national side, who are two games into a tournament. 

russpm

We’ve only played 2 games so it’s way too early for all this negativity, really! 4 points from 2 games stacks up pretty well. 

Remember how bad Portugal were in the group stage last time and they went on to win.
This is only Southgate’s 2nd major tournament and he got the team to the semis in the first so not a bad start considering what he inherited.
let’s get behind the team. 

No matter how bad things get you just don’t boo your own team. That is just low and is devoid of any sort of class or intelligence.

when things aren’t  going well you need the fans to lift the team…… not get on the backs of the players. This just makes things worse.

Here is to a good run in the competition and hoping Wales and Scotland do well also.