The Football Thread.

guitars4you

mikeyrob73 said:

How can they hit Everton with TWO in one season yet Man City and Chelsea carry on regardless ? 

Corrupt wank of a league 

Agree about Man City and Chelsea - I think, from what I can gather, then Man City and Chelsea is not about actual loses with regards to FFP - They are not actually making a lose as such on paper, more about bending the rules of funding, advertising/promotion and who pays certain wages, from which account/country, so as to avoid loses - Same difference really but they are being evasive - Hence over a 100 cases v Man City and only 1 v Everton - So a far more complex case as it is more about evasion, rather than a lose - City are obviously bending the rules so as not to show an actual lose

The reason Everton are been punished 2 in one season is because the first case is an actual back log based on historical info that should have been dealt with 2/3 seasons ago and was not - Hence Leeds, Burnley and Leics looking at a potential case v Everton - Believe that has been dropped for now by the 3 clubs as they don't want to put Everton into liquidation with to big a debt etc - However, because such clubs had an issue with the PL taking their time over the handling of the historic case with Everton, the PL have amended their rules/process - All the current/latest accounts have to be submitted before a certain date - As per any non football related business inc me - At that point, any excessive/on-going/accumulative loses, that exceeds PL guide lines, will be handled immediately, so it is all sorted out within the current PL season - If that was the case a while ago, then Everton not Burnley and/or Everton not Leicester would have been relegated a season or two ago 

Hard to know if Forest and Everton will this season just pick up a hefty fine - Which is. bit silly as only adds to the FFP issue/loses next season - But any failure to give a points deduction, will exasperate EFC and give them some credit as to a pending appeal against the existing 10 points fine - ie The PL need stop show consistency

It of course makes the potential purchase of Everton, courtesy of 777, an issue - As the purchase price for an EFL team will be a lot lower than a PL team - We found that out recently when the 49'ers completed the purchase of LUFC this summer after relegation - Nearly 2/3rds lower

As I mentioned above, over 1/2 the PL teams are close to breaching the FFP rules - So how do you sell players, at book prices, to avoid FFP, if no one has any money available - Sell players below book prices and it adds to the loses and makes breaching FFP next season more likely - Maybe the PL clubs are maxed out and a 'reset' required  

guitars4you

Vintage65 said:

guitars4you said:

Forest and Everton - Have now been charged by the PL for FFP - Interesting how Man City can still 'trade' in their own way whilst the authorities sieve thru' all the details to build a case 

By the sounds of things, 1/2 the PL can barely spend a penny this transfer window due to their own position and in danger of breaching FFP - That includes Newcastle 

I understand that the PL now intend to charge appropriate clubs within the same season that the accounts are issued, which shows the appropriate/latest losses - As such punishment will be instant and part of the same season

Good news for Leeds? Everton are still after Gnonto, plus Summerville is a target for other clubs.

I think we'll be safe this winter ref Summerville - But a verbal deal might be agreed in that no promotion and we won't stop you leaving for the right price - Not so sure Gnonto is as important now - Kind of gone backwards, for one reason or an other, compared to his initial spurt last season in the PL 

blobb

See the forest defence is based on not selling their star asset for a lower price before the qualifying petriod ended. They hung on and got more, therefore making their strategy more susatainable, not less.

Not sure I buy that as an excuse. It's not about one player, it's about all of the players bought / sold. The Everton excuse related to new stadium interest, I can maybe buy into. But for two seasons / periods?

Philly_Q

I've been very surprised by the reporting about Reading's extremely dodgy owner this weekend.  I'd been under the impression he was a Welshman called Dai Young, but turns out he's Chinese and is called Dai Yongge...

mrkb

Philly_Q said:

I've been very surprised by the reporting about Reading's extremely dodgy owner this weekend.  I'd been under the impression he was a Welshman called Dai Young, but turns out he's Chinese and is called Dai Yongge...

Aka “Only the good……..”

Philly_Q

mrkb said:

Philly_Q said:

I've been very surprised by the reporting about Reading's extremely dodgy owner this weekend.  I'd been under the impression he was a Welshman called Dai Young, but turns out he's Chinese and is called Dai Yongge...

Aka “Only the good……..”

menamestom

TTony said:

scrumhalf said:

ManU have a job on their hands. They have players who wear the same kit but they are not a team.

The third-biggest problem ManU have is that they've spent ££s and failed to build a team.
The second-biggest problem ManU have is that ETH thinks he needs more time to build that team (compare to what Ange has done in no-time flat).
The first-biggest problem ManU have is that they'll probably sack ETH and spend a load more ££s trying to solve the first two problems.


Teams are built, not bought. 

The worrying thing is ETH has not managed to create any kind of identity.  It’s not just that he has spent money, but chosen most of the signings that were supposed to be in his mould.  For example, the scouting team advised Anthony was worth £25 million but they were overruled, partly because we simply don’t have the correct structure to be anything but reactive.  

I don’t think ETH is the right man for the job long term.  But as a minimum he needs to be given until the end of the season, to see what can be achieved with more players back from injury and also there needs to be the overlap with the new management team.  If we bring in a decent Director of Football and have an ethos that runs through I think things should change fairly quickly.  When I say change, I don’t mean suddenly being world beaters, I just mean a plan, a style of play. I mean this is the biggest regime change since Fergie left and let’s be honest, it can’t be any worse.

bloodandtears

menamestom said:

TTony said:

scrumhalf said:

ManU have a job on their hands. They have players who wear the same kit but they are not a team.

The third-biggest problem ManU have is that they've spent ££s and failed to build a team.
The second-biggest problem ManU have is that ETH thinks he needs more time to build that team (compare to what Ange has done in no-time flat).
The first-biggest problem ManU have is that they'll probably sack ETH and spend a load more ££s trying to solve the first two problems.


Teams are built, not bought. 

The worrying thing is ETH has not managed to create any kind of identity.  It’s not just that he has spent money, but chosen most of the signings that were supposed to be in his mould.  For example, the scouting team advised Anthony was worth £25 million but they were overruled, partly because we simply don’t have the correct structure to be anything but reactive.  

I don’t think ETH is the right man for the job long term.  But as a minimum he needs to be given until the end of the season, to see what can be achieved with more players back from injury and also there needs to be the overlap with the new management team.  If we bring in a decent Director of Football and have an ethos that runs through I think things should change fairly quickly.  When I say change, I don’t mean suddenly being world beaters, I just mean a plan, a style of play. I mean this is the biggest regime change since Fergie left and let’s be honest, it can’t be any worse.

I still think that whilst Fergie remains in the shadows they will be hamstrung...

menamestom

bloodandtears said:

menamestom said:

TTony said:

scrumhalf said:

ManU have a job on their hands. They have players who wear the same kit but they are not a team.

The third-biggest problem ManU have is that they've spent ££s and failed to build a team.
The second-biggest problem ManU have is that ETH thinks he needs more time to build that team (compare to what Ange has done in no-time flat).
The first-biggest problem ManU have is that they'll probably sack ETH and spend a load more ££s trying to solve the first two problems.


Teams are built, not bought. 

The worrying thing is ETH has not managed to create any kind of identity.  It’s not just that he has spent money, but chosen most of the signings that were supposed to be in his mould.  For example, the scouting team advised Anthony was worth £25 million but they were overruled, partly because we simply don’t have the correct structure to be anything but reactive.  

I don’t think ETH is the right man for the job long term.  But as a minimum he needs to be given until the end of the season, to see what can be achieved with more players back from injury and also there needs to be the overlap with the new management team.  If we bring in a decent Director of Football and have an ethos that runs through I think things should change fairly quickly.  When I say change, I don’t mean suddenly being world beaters, I just mean a plan, a style of play. I mean this is the biggest regime change since Fergie left and let’s be honest, it can’t be any worse.

I still think that whilst Fergie remains in the shadows they will be hamstrung...

We'll see. I think it's more to do with the club being run by finance and marketing people for the last 10 years.  I don't think Fergie has a negative influence or is trying to pull strings in the background. If he was, we'd probably be better, to be fair.

bloodandtears

menamestom said:

bloodandtears said:

menamestom said:

TTony said:

scrumhalf said:

ManU have a job on their hands. They have players who wear the same kit but they are not a team.

The third-biggest problem ManU have is that they've spent ££s and failed to build a team.
The second-biggest problem ManU have is that ETH thinks he needs more time to build that team (compare to what Ange has done in no-time flat).
The first-biggest problem ManU have is that they'll probably sack ETH and spend a load more ££s trying to solve the first two problems.


Teams are built, not bought. 

The worrying thing is ETH has not managed to create any kind of identity.  It’s not just that he has spent money, but chosen most of the signings that were supposed to be in his mould.  For example, the scouting team advised Anthony was worth £25 million but they were overruled, partly because we simply don’t have the correct structure to be anything but reactive.  

I don’t think ETH is the right man for the job long term.  But as a minimum he needs to be given until the end of the season, to see what can be achieved with more players back from injury and also there needs to be the overlap with the new management team.  If we bring in a decent Director of Football and have an ethos that runs through I think things should change fairly quickly.  When I say change, I don’t mean suddenly being world beaters, I just mean a plan, a style of play. I mean this is the biggest regime change since Fergie left and let’s be honest, it can’t be any worse.

I still think that whilst Fergie remains in the shadows they will be hamstrung...

We'll see. I think it's more to do with the club being run by finance and marketing people for the last 10 years.  I don't think Fergie has a negative influence or is trying to pull strings in the background. If he was, we'd probably be better, to be fair.

not necessarily pulling strings or being deliberately negative, just his presence could unnerve staff that are under performing... he casts a permanent shadow over the club, especially during televised matches...

but yeah, glazers have done the damage for sure..

joneve

blobb said:

See the forest defence is based on not selling their star asset for a lower price before the qualifying petriod ended. They hung on and got more, therefore making their strategy more susatainable, not less.

Not sure I buy that as an excuse. It's not about one player, it's about all of the players bought / sold. The Everton excuse related to new stadium interest, I can maybe buy into. But for two seasons / periods?

As a Forest fan, me neither. We missed being within the acceptable losses by a hairs breadth apparently....which is all well and good, but without buying the likes of;

Hwang Ui-Jo

Josh Bowler

Omar Richards
Guilian Biancone

All of whom have played 0 minutes for Forest (with the exception of Biancone who played about 70 mins before he got injured), we'd have been absolutely fine. 

And that doesn't even account for the god awful deals for Jonjo Shelvey and Chris Wood - the latter has come good of late, but still two very expensive mistakes - or deals that could have been structured to keep us within the limits. 

The ex Director/Chairman Nicholas Randall barefaced lied to the entire fanbase when he said in a Q and A that we were and always will be within FFP. He can get fucked. 

And the owner, as ambitious as he likes to be has completely lost control of the transfer and recruitment strategy and allowed it to happen. 

do I agree the rules are fit for purpose? Absolutely not. But we should (and could) have abided by them. Corrupt league or not, this is completely on the club and I'm livid. 

Springywheel

When de bruyne came on and changed the game Vs Newcastle... that will turn out to be the point where the league swings in their favour. I don't think anyone stands a chance against them as they still have halaand to return. How do you compete against a team that effectively has two squads to choose from?

It's like that scene at the end of Zulu where the redcoats think the war is over, but an army of a few thousand Zulus appear on the horizon...only in this case they're all wearing City shirts. 

Lestratcaster

Thing is with City is they don't need to play past 2nd gear to win games, they can score goals without Haaland and De Bruyne. Teams don't function well won't certain players aren't playing (coming from an Arsenal fan we miss players) but they got the quality to do it with whoever is on the pitch.

bloodandtears

Lestratcaster said:

Thing is with City is they don't need to play past 2nd gear to win games, they can score goals without Haaland and De Bruyne. Teams don't function well won't certain players aren't playing (coming from an Arsenal fan we miss players) but they got the quality to do it with whoever is on the pitch.

true but I do think they struggle without Rodri

Lestratcaster

I think they can manage without Haaland and De Bruyne, when they don't have Rodri yes they can be affected.

With us its Saka/Odegaard/Saliba/Rice/Martinelli. Lose them and we're not quite the same side. We don't have the same quality replacements to come in and change the game without losing our potency.

blobb

@thecolourbox ready? 

thecolourbox

blobb said:

@thecolourbox ready? 

It's going to be a big one isn't it! Good result for your guys last night, extra time is such a lottery but you did well to keep fighting back. Looking forward to it, I shall be there with my dad. Ready for some good natured singing of Slap a Dingle of course haha

blobb

Fingers657

Bristol City are a dirty side.
Last night’s FA cup game against the Hammers was very disappointing.

joneve

Fingers657 said:

Bristol City are a dirty side.
Last night’s FA cup game against the Hammers was very disappointing.

To be fair, they’re not a dirty side generally but definitely got at West Ham last night.

Forest made hard work of seeing off Blackpool, Christ! Job done. Shame I’ll miss the away day at Ashton Gate as I’m out of the country :-(