The Football Thread.

mikeyrob73

9 points previously for going into Administration ( Portsmouth ) 

8 points for over spending building a new stadium 


makes sense 

Philly_Q

TTony said:

Philly_Q said:

It's like hitting Adele with a parking ticket.

And that would be another album's worth of "inspiration"

And instead of having her age as the album title, she could have the price of the ticket.

bloodandtears

guitars4you said:

bloodandtears said:

so the rich clubs win again...... and this is just "fines" dressed up as tax..

It will suit the big spenders for sure - Dressed up as a 'tax' is not fair as it is not a government tax in anyway shape or form - It is just a system in place in various USA leagues and it has been called a 'luxury tax'

Might not be government enforced but it is a tax, the EPL tax the overspenders and redistribute it accordingly.. I actually think it's a great idea...  should hopefully balance things up a bit and not see the money from the fines disappear down the back of the EPL sofa.

TTony

Philly_Q said:

TTony said:

Philly_Q said:

It's like hitting Adele with a parking ticket.

And that would be another album's worth of "inspiration"

And instead of having her age as the album title, she could have the price of the ticket.

Don't do all the work for her @Philly_Q - she has teams of people for that.

guitars4you

mikeyrob73 said:

9 points previously for going into Administration ( Portsmouth ) 

8 points for over spending building a new stadium 


makes sense 

Cost of new stadium and similar capital expenditure are not part of FFP/PSR overspend - ditto youth team development

The bulk of FFP/PSR is income (be it sponsorship, gate revenue, shirt deals, tv revenue) less wages and amortisation plus profit/loss of players 

But capital expenditure etc does not come into play one little bit - the only 'gray area' I'm not so sure about is the cost of servicing the interest on any potential 'bank loan' for such a project - But the actual stadium cost is not part of FFP/PSR

guitars4you

Rocker said:

Points gained from games should be retained by clubs, penalties for financial irregularities should be financial.  It is relatively easy to focus on Everton, Forest, Luton etc., so why do clubs like Man City, Chelsea etc. get away with PL breaches, the same breaches that Everton, Forest, Luton etc. are penalised for.

Chelsea under Roman and Man CIty are not 'currently' exactly under investigation for breaches of FFP/PSR - Although the last + next set of accounts for Chelsea will breach current PSR rules - The case to answer under Roman's reign is more about 'secret payments' to/from other companies Roman owned - Plus secret payments to players/agents to avoid such payments going thru' the accounts to avoid FFP/PSR 

Man City is far more complex, hence potential 100 plus charges to answer - In particular failing to disclose accurate accounts and a host of hidden 'extras' - mainly via sponsorship from companies owned by the sovereign state - ie if Etihad sponsor the Man City Stadium for 150 Million (some even quote 400 million) - That 150 million goes into the FFP/PSR income pot to help profitability, but is it a genuine transaction, or a gift from the owners (which is not part of the income rules) - Ditto the same huge sponsorship for the shirt deal name -- Plus again alleged payments to players, Pep, agents from the sovereign state and/or Etihad, to keep the books of Man City within FFP/PSR - Even if the sponsorship is genuine it is considered 'extreme' compared to other such deals with other clubs etc - So is it a gift, via a different format and such 'sugar daddy' gifts are not part of FFP/PSR 

In both cases it is a question of cooking the books - Not dissimilar to tax evasion, via shell companies and very complexx to prove an audit trial exists

In short Chelsea and Man City have actually avoided FFP/PSR loses by 'cooking the books' - but a complex trail to prove

guitars4you

bloodandtears said:

guitars4you said:

bloodandtears said:

so the rich clubs win again...... and this is just "fines" dressed up as tax..

It will suit the big spenders for sure - Dressed up as a 'tax' is not fair as it is not a government tax in anyway shape or form - It is just a system in place in various USA leagues and it has been called a 'luxury tax'

Might not be government enforced but it is a tax, the EPL tax the overspenders and redistribute it accordingly.. I actually think it's a great idea...  should hopefully balance things up a bit and not see the money from the fines disappear down the back of the EPL sofa.

The idea is that part of the 'fines' will go to PL clubs who play within the rules - Brighton just posted a big profit - Plus additional funds from the fines to go lower down into the EFL

AustrianJohn

Meanwhile, Reading has been deducted 18 points because of late payments (tax and salaries), which has resulted in one demotion and has pushed them close to a second. This from an owner who had previously destroyed two clubs but passed the league’s owners test. 

guitars4you

AustrianJohn said:

Meanwhile, Reading has been deducted 18 points because of late payments (tax and salaries), which has resulted in one demotion and has pushed them close to a second. This from an owner who had previously destroyed two clubs but passed the league’s owners test. 

Yes, astonishing how close the authorities examine certain owners - Can’t recall his name now but wasn’t the previous Man City owner wanted by Interpol

guitars4you

Listening to a couple of journalists tonight - a) what we already know/assume - The PL created a FFP/PSR rule book, but did not create a clear and/or listed set of punishments to go with it - So yes effectively they are making it up as they go along - Be it the first offence or a repeat offence for the same club - So no framework in place as to what punishment is coming your way - b) If/when you appeal you will not see the same appeal team - Everton and Forest have so far seen, or will see a different panel - Some might be more soft or hard subject to your proposal/appeal - Ludicrous situation as surely the same appeal board should be looking at the same breach of FFP/PSR for continuity 

No issue with any 'offence' having been taken and all PL teams voted for the FFP/PSR system - But even at the vote it appears as though no team asked what the punishment criteria would be - And the PL never stated they had or did not have any frame work to work with 

scrumhalf

Well, at least we can be assured that when the government introduce a regulator all of these problems will vanish, all sanctions for breaches will become crystal-clear and everything will become wonderful.

Because that always happens when governments get involved, doesn't it? 

BigBearKris

What a cracking CL game last night. I've decided to watch Real v City and it was very entertaining indeed. Both teams started quite chaotically and early goal for City opened the whole game even more. 
Looking at highlights Arsenal v BM was great too. 

guitars4you

BigBearKris said:

What a cracking CL game last night. I've decided to watch Real v City and it was very entertaining indeed. Both teams started quite chaotically and early goal for City opened the whole game even more. 
Looking at highlights Arsenal v BM was great too. 

Almost like its own goal of the month competition - Foden was excellent last night - Madrid might not have the legs for a 90 min game these days, but whilst he was on, he dictated play in that 1/4 back way 

TeleMaster

Great games last night. 

guitars4you

TeleMaster said:

Great games last night. 

I had to tolerate a nil nil draw - chance to go top yet only 1 shot on target- Yet almost a hand of god penalty that only the ref did not see

Watched the City game on planner after and didn’t know the score so kind of live

Will watch PSG Barca tonight 

Then hopefully watch your big game Thursday- good luck - Looking a strong tournament now when you look at the last 8

Lestratcaster

Yes great games of football. Esp the Real Madrid vs City one. As for us we will take a draw but had Ben White scored to make it 2-0 when through on goal it might have been different. I've never been Saka so angry before as I did last night, everyone says he dived but what is he meant to do with both his legs in the air running so fast? Neuer made no attempt to play the ball so its a penalty. But I think he should have tried to score first when through on goal instead of trying to go round the keeper.
Trossard's been the super sub for us, really makes an impression whenever he's come on.

All to play for in the 2nd leg. Can we do it? I really don't know. 

TeleMaster

guitars4you said:

TeleMaster said:

Great games last night. 

I had to tolerate a nil nil draw - chance to go top yet only 1 shot on target- Yet almost a hand of god penalty that only the ref did not see

Watched the City game on planner after and didn’t know the score so kind of live

Will watch PSG Barca tonight 

Then hopefully watch your big game Thursday- good luck - Looking a strong tournament now when you look at the last 8

I hope Leverkusen remember us as the ones who ended their streak... but I'm worried because they look so good. We're missing Bowen, Alvarez and Areola but we have Antonio and Fabianski so I think we'll be okay.

This has a Moyes defensive masterclass written all over it, maybe a smash and grab, bring it back home and get the result. The only problem is, our CB's are shit/old. 

guitars4you

Raphinha certainly outshone Mbappe last night - But again another exciting CL game 

DesVegas

yep, not one shot on goal for Mbappe, that is how you beat them, by shutting them down

thecolourbox

Saw quite possibly the most hilariously incorrect penalty decision last night at WBA v Rotherham. I'm not even sure it hit his hand (or that he would have known much about it) but the fact that he was visibly outside the box should surely have been noticed by the ref. Start at 31 seconds for all the angles. Mind boggling decision



I do remember us playing them in the early 00s when we were first trying to get promoted and the ref then not giving us a goal when the ball was about a yard over the line, but I think this one is even worse as the ref was in the perfect position, just incompetent.

It was a very sad and dull match as Rotherham really were awful. I think we were shouting "handball" at every touch for about 5 mins, then got bored, then started a chorus of "we've got the ball, we've lost the ball, we've got the ball" etc etc for a while.