The Football Thread.

TTony

guitars4you said:

But as we know , a big gulf in the PL between the top 6-8 elite clubs and the rest -

I do wonder, with all the emotion and outrage removed, whether that European Super League would actually have been a positive, on balance, for the domestic game (emphasis on "game").

Filter a load of the money out of the domestic game and concentrate it in the Super League.  Meanwhile, the remaining domestic game gets a more balanced, more level and competitive, playing field.  The foreign mercenaries follow the money allowing domestic players more opportunity - and the national team gets stronger too.

Hopefully that would make the domestic game less attractive as a pure cash generative investment and or political one-upmanship and green-washing opportunity - ie more of a game and less of a business.

Ahhhh ... the good old days

guitars4you

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

Looks like no one wants to get promoted either from the EFL to the PL 

Recent performance don't bode well for their results when they get promoted.  If they can't beat some fairly ordinary Championship sides, then it could well be a bit Sheffield Utd all over again for them in the PL next season.

5 games in 15 days doesn't help after the international break  - Add 2 games in 3/4 days for those on international duty inc 4 Welsh lads and all the emotion that went with it - 4/5 players came back with knocks - Some played thru' some missed 2/3 games - Plus our 'key' play maker had a hernia OP and was back playing 5/6 days later 

guitars4you

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

But as we know , a big gulf in the PL between the top 6-8 elite clubs and the rest -

I do wonder, with all the emotion and outrage removed, whether that European Super League would actually have been a positive, on balance, for the domestic game (emphasis on "game").

Filter a load of the money out of the domestic game and concentrate it in the Super League.  Meanwhile, the remaining domestic game gets a more balanced, more level and competitive, playing field.  The foreign mercenaries follow the money allowing domestic players more opportunity - and the national team gets stronger too.

Hopefully that would make the domestic game less attractive as a pure cash generative investment and or political one-upmanship and green-washing opportunity - ie more of a game and less of a business.

Ahhhh ... the good old days

Valid question - Not just a question for the likes of 'former' big names like Everton, Leeds, Forest etc but even a question for the likes of Spurs, West Ham, maybe Villa and maybe even Newcastle - Can they ever win anything in the PL and maybe even the 2 domestic trophies - Sure they can have a better season - Spurs and Arsenal may well not win anything this season, but both have had a better season this year - Not just hope but style of play and a purpose - Is that enough ? - Maybe not if you are close to winning - But better than 2/3 seasons ago 

The big questions are, how good will City be when Pep calls it a day - Will LFC be a top 2/3 club once Klopp calls it a day and can Arsenal continue to progress - Can Chelsea and/or Man U fill any of those gaps and how long will it take Newcastle to be a top 4 club, if indeed will they

Currently the PL is almost a closed shop as far as the top 4/5/6 positions go - Likewise we almost know who the bottom 10 clubs will be once we get to Aug - I guarantee you won't get that in the EFL - even Ipswich fans would not have expected a potential top 6 finish, let alone 1/2 or 3

TTony

guitars4you said:

The big questions are, how good will City be when Pep calls it a day - Will LFC be a top 2/3 club once Klopp calls it a day and can Arsenal continue to progress

City will probably have a blip when Pep goes, ditto Liverpool, as the players get used to a new manager, a new style, a new approach, and just the different personalities (as it's usually not *just* the manager - the whole backroom coaching team often changes).

But I think the wider infrastructure around the club and the financial resources, mean that they're likely to back where they are now in fairly short order.  Of course, there's a risk that they "do a ManU" and pick a new manager, see some relatively poor results, don't give them enough time, sack him, rinse/repeat and gradually slip away.  A risk, or a hope

Arsenal - and certainly Spurs - need another season or three for the relatively new managers to fully embed their styles and build the team around those styles.  I'd put Newcastle in that category too (and hope that they give Howe more time) - they over-achieved last season and are paying for it this year with a squad that was too thin.  I see Villa as this season's Newcastle.

Naturally, I'm hoping that we start the peak-Postecoglu era just as ManC and Liverpool bottom-out, and Arteta has been poached back to Spainland
 

tony99

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

But as we know , a big gulf in the PL between the top 6-8 elite clubs and the rest -

I do wonder, with all the emotion and outrage removed, whether that European Super League would actually have been a positive, on balance, for the domestic game (emphasis on "game").

Filter a load of the money out of the domestic game and concentrate it in the Super League.  Meanwhile, the remaining domestic game gets a more balanced, more level and competitive, playing field.  The foreign mercenaries follow the money allowing domestic players more opportunity - and the national team gets stronger too.

Hopefully that would make the domestic game less attractive as a pure cash generative investment and or political one-upmanship and green-washing opportunity - ie more of a game and less of a business.

Ahhhh ... the good old days

From page 1 of this very thread:
Still gutted over the european super league not going through; that could well have been the first step for the english leagues going back to something watchable and less concerned with commercialism. As it stands the game's no longer what it was.

TeleMaster

I don't agree with that 100%, but I do think that there's merit in the argument. Lots of these big clubs are pretty much commercial entities, with very high ticket prices, seats bought up by businesses to give to customers and so on. The football and the fans are an afterthought, and it's  creeping in more and more at West Ham to a degree too. I don't know if you could say the same about the likes of Luton, Wolves etc. So if these big commercial clubs want to go, I can see why letting them go will give the league back to clubs who still have fans at the forefront. The football is definitely watchable as it is though, unless you're watching City ZZZZZzzzzz.

Seeing all those comments about Moyes at the beginning of the thread is funny because it's such a divisive subject amongst the fanbase now. If we don't overcome this 2-0 deficit against Leverkusen on Thursday I think he's gone when his contract is up in a few months.

Creed_Clicks

Just noticed, with Alonso winning league in Germany, that's a Spanish manager no 1 in Germany, and in 3 out of the top 4 teams in England and PSG. Granted, a lot of money behind these clubs, but remember when dour Scottish fellas were the brains behind it all! 

TeleMaster

Creed_Clicks said:

Just noticed, with Alonso winning league in Germany, that's a Spanish manger no 1 in Germany, and in 3 out of the top 4 teams in England and PSG. Granted, a lot of money behind these clubs, but remember when dour Scottish fellas were the brains behind it all! 

guitars4you

TeleMaster said:

I don't agree with that 100%, but I do think that there's merit in the argument. Lots of these big clubs are pretty much commercial entities, with very high ticket prices, seats bought up by businesses to give to customers and so on. The football and the fans are an afterthought, and it's  creeping in more and more at West Ham to a degree too. I don't know if you could say the same about the likes of Luton, Wolves etc. So if these big commercial clubs want to go, I can see why letting them go will give the league back to clubs who still have fans at the forefront. The football is definitely watchable as it is though, unless you're watching City ZZZZZzzzzz.

Seeing all those comments about Moyes at the beginning of the thread is funny because it's such a divisive subject amongst the fanbase now. If we don't overcome this 2-0 deficit against Leverkusen on Thursday I think he's gone when his contract is up in a few months.

Hear stories about the idea of approaching McKenna

Looks like KP will be gone very shortly from West Ham  - Rumours of a loan back to Leeds, but I don't see it - 150K a week, be it Leeds in the PL or EFL is not a wage we can pay - No one else in the squad receives anything like that 

TeleMaster

guitars4you said:

TeleMaster said:

I don't agree with that 100%, but I do think that there's merit in the argument. Lots of these big clubs are pretty much commercial entities, with very high ticket prices, seats bought up by businesses to give to customers and so on. The football and the fans are an afterthought, and it's  creeping in more and more at West Ham to a degree too. I don't know if you could say the same about the likes of Luton, Wolves etc. So if these big commercial clubs want to go, I can see why letting them go will give the league back to clubs who still have fans at the forefront. The football is definitely watchable as it is though, unless you're watching City ZZZZZzzzzz.

Seeing all those comments about Moyes at the beginning of the thread is funny because it's such a divisive subject amongst the fanbase now. If we don't overcome this 2-0 deficit against Leverkusen on Thursday I think he's gone when his contract is up in a few months.

Hear stories about the idea of approaching McKenna

Looks like KP will be gone very shortly from West Ham  - Rumours of a loan back to Leeds, but I don't see it - 150K a week, be it Leeds in the PL or EFL is not a wage we can pay - No one else in the squad receives anything like that 

Good. It's been awful!

No one will pay him what he's earning at City and not many can match the wages, as you say. If he goes on loan it will probably be a partial wage payment from whatever club he goes to.

If I were him I'd just stay at City until my contract runs down and try and get back into the squad or go on loan moves. Who cares? He's got 4 more years at £150k a week, why take a pay cut and move? He'll be 32, he can spend a couple of years in the US and then retire a very rich man with a lot of (unearned) medals. 

Rocker

Who is KP?

CHRISB50

Rocker said:

Who is KP?

Kalvin Phillips

RaymondLin

Kalvin Philip's contract still have 4 years left?! Geez.

TeleMaster

RaymondLin said:

Kalvin Philip's contract still have 4 years left?! Geez.

Yea. He signed a £150k, 6 year deal 2 years ago and he doesn't even have to travel with the City squad. The guy won at life.

I guess if it were me and I was 15 playing guitar in bands, would I be happy at 28 being a dep for a major band, getting paid a shit load of money but never actually doing the thing I worked so hard to get good at? Probably not. If you could earn a bit less and play more, and still be very well off I think most people would prefer that. 

RaymondLin

Well I guess he has won the treble technically last season!

thecolourbox

TeleMaster said:

RaymondLin said:

Kalvin Philip's contract still have 4 years left?! Geez.

Yea. He signed a £150k, 6 year deal 2 years ago and he doesn't even have to travel with the City squad. The guy won at life.

I guess if it were me and I was 15 playing guitar in bands, would I be happy at 28 being a dep for a major band, getting paid a shit load of money but never actually doing the thing I worked so hard to get good at? Probably not. If you could earn a bit less and play more, and still be very well off I think most people would prefer that. 

I'd 100% prefer the money and less effort in fairness

TTony

TeleMaster said:

I guess if it were me and I was 15 playing guitar in bands, would I be happy at 28 being a dep for a major band, getting paid a shit load of money but never actually doing the thing I worked so hard to get good at? Probably not. If you could earn a bit less and play more, and still be very well off I think most people would prefer that. 

There are players who see football merely as a job though.

Yes, they’ve worked hard to get there, and are good at it, but you can see equivalent efforts to get up the career path in many professions.  

Must be tough though, being a squad player and always having to be prepared and ready but rarely getting on the pitch.  Still, £150k/wk, not too tough!

Lestratcaster

Finely poised tonight vs Bayern. I hope Zinchenko doesn't start at LB as he's been accountable for a lot of mistakes and conceded goals this season. Much prefer Kiwior or Tomiyasu who are defensively more solid.

Also Saka and Odegaard face fitness tests before the game. Hope one of them plays at least though they both have good link up play together.

Will be nervously following tonight.

TTony

Kane to get a hat-trick, but Arsenal to win 4-3

Lestratcaster

Kane will score, cos he always seems to score against us! Got no idea which Arsenal will turn up though esp after the Villa loss.