So it's a NO.. so what happens now?

ICBM

johnnyurq said:

Agreed the timescale is somewhat tight and kneee jerks need avoiding to get it as right as possible from day one. As long as the commitment to following through is kept to then the timetable is less important, some kind of agreement in kind would be nice as a show of good faith and intentions.

Agreed, but there is a real danger of Labour refusing to sort out the West Lothian question if they get back into power first - it's quite clear that they don't want to.

On the other hand, if all the 45% who voted Yes - and any now-disillusioned No voters - work together, we could wipe out all three main UK parties in Scotland anyway, at which point it should make no difference. If we all vote SNP - or Green, in arranged constituencies so as to not split the vote - there would be a bloc of 59 Scottish MPs who would probably hold the balance of power in Westminster.

Fretwired

johnnyurq said:

Fretwired;357701" said:

johnnyurq said:



I see there is supposedly a campaign to get Andy Murray's mum voted off Strictky first for having the audacity to vote yes. Petty fuckwittery or what?












@johnnyurq Just a few nutters .. the Times ran a piece supporting him and loads of British tennis fans still support him. You'll always get a few either side of the border who use social media to spread hate and intolerance. Whoever made the Dunblane comment actually galvanised people into supporting Andy - vile comment. And last time I checked we live in a free country in which people are entitled to voice an opinion.

@Fretwired

That is ironic considering you in recent weeks have sought to tar and implicate the majority of Scots with the actions of a few "nutters". If you don't believe me go back and reread your recent ish posts in the other thread in SC.

@johnnyurq .. bollocks as usual - not Scots but a proportion of SNP Nats ... I'm part Scot myself with family in Scotland (Scots). And go ask Jim Murphy who talks about 'a dark corner of Scotland where an intolerant Scottish nationalism lives' ... it's more widespread than you're willing to admit. As for Murry the Daily Mail did a survey and his support has actually gone up in England. Go ask JKR what she was subjected to ... not nice at all.

ICBM

I don't think it's widespread. While it clearly does exist - as does a small, intolerant "loyalist" minority as was demonstrated on Friday night - it's very much the exception. I've lived in Scotland for thirty years, I have a very English public-school accent, and in all that time I've been subjected to anti-English jibes - certainly of any sort that goes beyond good-natured banter - no more than once or twice if I can even remember them at all. OK, I live in the east and not in Glasgow, but I've never experienced anything over there either.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

I don't think it's widespread. While it clearly does exist - as does a small, intolerant "loyalist" minority as was demonstrated on Friday night - it's very much the exception. I've lived in Scotland for thirty years, I have a very English public-school accent, and in all that time I've been subjected to anti-English jibes - certainly of any sort that goes beyond good-natured banter - no more than once or twice if I can even remember them at all. OK, I live in the east and not in Glasgow, but I've never experienced anything over there either.

I agree with you - I have been to Scotland hundreds of times for pleasure and on business and have only had a few instances - I think the campaign has exacerbated the situation and there's certainly been an anti-English element in certain quarters as reported in the Scottish press. Jonnyurq seems to think I've branded everyone in Scotland as anti-English racist which is not the case. I think the antagonism is more SNP Nat versus pro union Scots. I just hate nationalism ..

Fusionista

Clarky said:Redwood is my local MP.. I've met / chatted via e-mail with him a few times [when I've wrote a snottly letter to my MP.. lol..].. I've always found him to be very switched on, totally down to earth, very in touch with what us ordinary folk think is important to us, and that he actually genuinely gives a crap..

if he was running for Prime Minister I reckon I'd vote for him..

I've been pretty impressed with him too lately - his biggest mistake was trying to mime to the Welsh national anthem...

Drew_TNBD

Johnny, I can't really expand on it much more than that. It's Sunday. The vote was Thursday. Going tit-for-tat at this point seems petty and meaningless to me.

johnnyurq

Fretwired;357964" said:

johnnyurq said:

Fretwired;357701" said:johnnyurq said:







I see there is supposedly a campaign to get Andy Murray's mum voted off Strictky first for having the audacity to vote yes. Petty fuckwittery or what?

























@johnnyurq Just a few nutters .. the Times ran a piece supporting him and loads of British tennis fans still support him. You'll always get a few either side of the border who use social media to spread hate and intolerance. Whoever made the Dunblane comment actually galvanised people into supporting Andy - vile comment. And last time I checked we live in a free country in which people are entitled to voice an opinion.

@Fretwired



That is ironic considering you in recent weeks have sought to tar and implicate the majority of Scots with the actions of a few "nutters". If you don't believe me go back and reread your recent ish posts in the other thread in SC.














@johnnyurq .. bollocks as usual - not Scots but a proportion of SNP Nats ... I'm part Scot myself with family in Scotland (Scots). And go ask Jim Murphy who talks about 'a dark corner of Scotland where an intolerant Scottish nationalism lives' ... it's more widespread than you're willing to admit. As for Murry the Daily Mail did a survey and his support has actually gone up in England. Go ask JKR what she was subjected to ... not nice at all.

@Fretwired

Nice and right back at you as far as talking bollocks goes, seems I have touched a nerve. Also I don't really care about what your ancestry is, it is largely irrelevant and it is what you have said that irks me.

We will have to agree to disagree on this but please feel free to review the posts where insinuated and indirectly indicated that this is exactly what you thought.

I responded to them in the thread  because I felt that was what you were on and to add some balance that any anti whomever shit is not one way and definitely in large numbers either side of the border, of course if you had read my replies you may realise that.

As for JKR again if you read what I said at the time and in this thread I abhorred that responses too and was just making the point that the whole Dunblane thing was a low blow from the idiots who said it. Hardly the same as insinuatung that it was widespread.

I am sincere in that and cannot get the mindset of the few eejits who behave like that in public and it really matters not who what oir why but that it does happen and needs addressing and balance when it is made more of than it should. My assertion of fuckwittery I feel was reasonable to describe anyone engaging in such hateful BS and you took it to be a slur against all your kinfolk. Well I am afraid you have done that on several occasions and get all defensive when called out on it.

Even though I was told \i was tripping and shouted down by you and others of my fears for a backlash after a no vote lo and behold people have posted here and other places have said that they in fact believe there is a backlash that is growing.

I have also said I sincerely hope it is mountains out of molehills and not the case, but if some in England believe it to be the case then I have to be prepred that they may be right.

Having said that I am confident and hopeful that it is as usual a combination of hype and press driven exaggerating that foks are reacting to.

Now the media have made a lot about the wee barney at George square that whilst shamefuk and disgusting was a non event yet 500 were involved in a running battle in Blackpool and it gets much less mention, agandas much from the press/media, Not I do not say ordinary folks before you get silly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-29295541

Hysterically I googled "500 fighting in blackpool" and the first hit was this.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=74882424

Somewhat odd would you not agree that they choose to push that story above the other arguably worse stooshie.

I still say too much is being made of the really bad stuff both sides of the border, well lets hope so.

Anyway as I say agree to disagree because to be frank I am rather bored of your high handed BS in these matters.


@ICBM

Yes it is a worry but hopefully the statements from all the main protaganists today (not Milliband the twat though) means there is the will there. But I agree they need to be watched and held to account.

I agree lets wipe Labour out at the next GE and Holyrood election to show our contemot of them. If only it would happen as well as freezing out the other 2 also. Sounds like a plan to me.


@Drew_fx

I do understand where you are coming from and I am indyref weary, but the debate has moved on from there to the impending possible changes across the UK.

Like you have said oin many occasions on many subjects if you don't like the comments beng made then either weigh in properly or feel free to ignore it all. Comments like your earlier one seem silly to me, sorry dude but it is my personal opinion which you arte also free to ignore or take issue with and flame me if you wish. I can cope and will happily debate with you or anyone wishing to.


The thing is Drew that if it hasn't become clear from my track record on these matters it is imprtant to me and this shit to me really matters LOL.

You also have hobby horses and passions and 90% of the time I agree with you and 10% I think WTF and how petty is that or you took that too far dude.

Of that 10% of times I have never been felt moved to call you a cunt or the need to post and put you right, my opinion maybe.

At those times I exercise my right to say SFA and move on, unless I feel I have something to add opinion wise then I will engage with it.

It can sometimes come acroos as do what I say and want and not as I do, sorry but I know like me you appreciate frankness and even bluntness.

TLDR

Pot, Kettle Black, decuide which one is me and which one is you.

Anyway enjoy your chilled sunday dude I know I did whilst enjoying whisky and beer at my Geordie BIL's 59th, I druny a malt or 12 (partial copyright @Myranda)..

Fretwired

@johnnyurq .. no nerve touched. I think it's more telling that you write war and peace in every post - what's that all about?. I have posted links to back up some of my comments which you just ignore ... I'm actually not interested in your long-winded diatribes so will leave you to bathe in the warm glow of your self-righteousness.  

sinbaadi

TLDR, I just find myself wondering who's the more scared that they're getting the worse end of the deal?  The Scots that think England will just continue to use and abuse them, or the English that think Scotland is going to be given unfair powers/freedom/finances as a reward for voting No.

For me it's obvious what will happen.  Westminster will drag their heels with anything important.  Parties will build election campaigns around the delivery (or not) of these promises to Scotland (and the rest of the UK), and the treadmill continues.  Nobody will benefit, really.

johnnyurq

@Fretwired

Judging by your response i am not too sure a nerve has not been touched.

As you wish and if you want to make it personal the fine I can do that if not stick me on ignore.

I do not ignore your reewponses I try to answer as best and fully as I can, if I see it or am alerted to it when the notifications work.

My posting style is the same as my mode of speech in the real world if you don't like it tough as it is the authentic me unlike your arrogant preaching and talking at people how wise you are for finding such quality links and how well connected you are.

The thing is real world experience trumps dubious links whihc may or may not be accurate, not proof ihn any form at all.

Likewise I am not that interested in your pithy little jumped up pearls of non wisdom, but I reserve the right to put my opinion across if I think you are beign the petty little prejudiuced man you truly are pedalling half truths and media originated BS.

As for self righteous I will give no apology for being passionate and sincere in what I believe and I would say that of the two of us that accusation has more weight levelled at you I am afraid, not that i am tottally absolving myself you understand.

See told you I could get personal too and respond in kind, so ignore me or kindly fuck off eh

Evilmags

If Millaband stands in the way of Devo max labour will be buggered in Scotland for a long time. Which it should be as it has run every shite and corrupt municipality in the country.

Fusionista

littlegreenman said:

I'm immensely proud of us all that the UK has shown the whole World that such an important choice regarding the split of an existing nation, either way - Yes or No, can be done peacefully with pieces of paper.

Not a single shot was fired, and no lives were lost.

That's a first, even for the UK.

You said it for me. Have a wisdom.  

Got to admit, I was pretty excited about it, even as a Cornishman - an official "minority" no less (yeah, like Cornwall still exists), but seems to me it has jazzed everyone up for some change. Let's just hope it's not plus c'est la meme chose...

johnnyurq

sinbaadi;358247" said:

TLDR, I just find myself wondering who's the more scared that they're getting the worse end of the deal?  The Scots that think England will just continue to use and abuse them, or the English that think Scotland is going to be given unfair powers/freedom/finances as a reward for voting No.

For me it's obvious what will happen.  Westminster will drag their heels with anything important.  Parties will build election campaigns around the delivery (or not) of these promises to Scotland (and the rest of the UK), and the treadmill continues.  Nobody will benefit, really.

No offence dude but I hope you are wrong and they deliver for us all this time.

Sadly in the real world it is certainly very plausable that it will go down exactly as you say here though.

holnrew

Have we decided who has the longer cock yet?

VimFuego

I've always wanted an old game cock. a bit tougher than many of use are used to but those who are more experienced than I tell me it's more flavoursome.

Fretwired

johnnyurq said:

@Fretwired

The thing is real world experience trumps dubious links whihc may or may not be accurate, not proof ihn any form at all.

@johnnyurg .. so what you're saying is that other people's opinions are worthless if they happen to to be in links from posts I make as your worldly experience trumps them. So people like the BBC's Andrew Marr, or Labour's Jim Murphy or George Galloway or a host of other people who express an opinion are classed by you as dubious. It's a wonder anyone reads newspapers, watches the BBC news or engages with social media debates or online forums like this ... as for me being well connected I meet a lot of politicians and journalists through what I do for a living .. sorry about that. I won't mention it again. However, I wouldn't call it well connected as I don't get invited round for dinner - these people readily express opinions, give interviews, answer questions and over a beer often give candid insights .. it seems you are only interested in augments that support your entrenched views or certain issues.

I have no issue with you being passionate though I don't know why you keep attacking me when I have actually changed my opinion on a number of issues based on reading some of your posts. My last one was actually in support of something you wrote and yet you couldn't wait to stick the boot in yet again ...

johnnyurq

@Fretwired

To be clear until my last post none of my responses to you are or were meant personally and I only tend to do that when responding in kind.

I maybe should have made it clearer my initial comment was meant to be partially tongue in cheek at the start but was trying to bring some balance to your at times hyperbolic statements meant (in my view) to claim loads of Scots were anti English. I have tried time and again to try and add that it is overhyped as it is in the other direction,we all know logically that it is in fact a small minority.

Galloway is not credible in my opinion he went from almost talking sense years ago to a dumbo, although occasionally makes sense. No biggie as statistically even the worst of politicians can have moments if clarity.

As for Jim Murphy and Andrew Marr I addressed them when you oinked to that because I heard them say that more was made of their statements than was meant. 

Marr it was in his 3 part doccy on his choice of great Scots and Murphy in an STV interview and on the referendum coverage on one of the beeb channels.

Actual statements by the people in question as i say trump media links, and yes I have become wary if media links and when I do use them I do not try to present them as fact. As I am sure you are aware even checking with multiple sources it is never clear cut as they all have their own take on it.

I clearly remember posting that in reply in the SC thread, so I did respond so maybe you never saw it or read it, it happens. i can assure you if I am addressed directly (and sometimes not) I try to reply as I believe it is rude not to.

OK so it ends up a being bit verbose but that is me when talking about things that matter to me, brevity is something I do on topics that hold less interest. So you either need to bear with it or skip over it, maybe even ask me to give a briefer reply to any direct question you out to me, I guarantee I will not ignore it.

Listen I took a couple of cheap shots because you seemed intent on continuing down the road of making it all seem one sided and we all do that in moments of anger and no offence really is meant. 

These things happen in robust debates and as I say I have nothing against you on a personal level no matter how much we are at loggerheads, some of the things you say however do prod me to respond as I do. 

At the end if the day for the most part it is just our opinions and neither can claim incontrovertible facts, but when it is from the horses mouth as in my above examples I am more inclined to give more weight to that over press and media stuff.

I think and I hope that if I do get personal with you pr anyone then it is responding in kind, I know rise above and all that but we are all primal beings at times.

If I do it first then hopefully I will get called out in it or realise I was being twatty then man up and accept it was my bad.

In our encounters where we are diametrically opposed or robustly disagreeing you have a tendency (from my perspective) to make it personal if you feel you are on the back foot slightly, then I respond in kimd and here we are like this.

The funny thing is that on the whole our discussions and disagreements are mostly interesting and food for thought with having to consider a different perspective and maybe some balance.

Maybe in the small percentage of bad debates we both need to be mindful of where it might go.

Sorry but I have no truly entrenched views I have some ideals and things I hold very dear but if/when they are proved to be wrong I am happy to amend my views. If I have lived it and lived through it then I go on  that and events since.

I am more interested in balance when it is needed in these discussions and nothing more no point scoring or attacks.

After the long road of shite from the Blair and Brown years and now Milliband behaving as he has I cannot see me voting for any flavour of Labour party for a long time if ever again. That is how non entrenched I am. 

In any case based on our past debates on the effects of the Thatcher years I could if being petty point out how entrenched your views on that were, but like me I think you have considered the more recent revelations and shifted your thoughts a bit on that.

Maybe we are not as entrenched as the other thinks.

Anyhow I have written far too much as per usual but I wanted to be clear that I do not desire to stick the boot in as you say or have any personal issues with you, only your words at times and that seems to be mutual.

I will send you the edited highlights if the above is too much to wade through.

Apologies forum for a maahooosive post once again. Must be the whisky or more likely my lack of verbal succinctness at times.

johnnyurq

holnrew said:

Have we decided who has the longer cock yet?

Yes the guy in the Gimp suit.

Does it taste like chicken @VimFuego as most exotic things do, except the ones that don't of course.

suspiciousminds

On a lighter note - my boss who's scottish is gonna do us a "scottish nite" to celebrate, which will contain something called clootie dumplings.
Problem is, as her accent is broad scots it sounds to all us blokes like "clitty dumplings"!

suspiciousminds

suspiciousminds;358632" said:

On a lighter note - my boss who's scottish is gonna do us a "scottish nite" to celebrate, which will contain something called clootie dumplings.
Problem is, as her accent is broad scots it sounds to all us blokes like "clitty dumplings"!

Cant wait personally!