The F1 thread

chillidoggy

Boromedic said:

Fretwired said:

steer said:

Williams are screwed. There are no good experienced drivers left on the market to go alongside their $lightly unin$piring rookie. 

There's always Palmer ...

I don't think this is a bad shout tbh, although I'd have Wehrlein or Kvyatt over him (obvs not sure where they stand on the sponsor thing).

In other news the tyre test today had Kubica 0.1secs behind Massas quali time. Although fuel and other factors at play, plus a warmer track probably. Although he set that on the new hyper softs which are a grade softer than the ultras, also he was only 0.5secs quicker than Sirotkin who did has quickest lap on softs, 3 grades harder. Hmmm I'm not sure, it was at this point Renault cooled their interest so we will see. I suppose my hesitation with him is that I'd also hate him to come back and embarass himself. We shall see what Williams think after they've gone through all that data.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42170859

I’m not sure Palmer ever cut the mustard, and I’ve never rated Di Resta for reasons I can’t put my finger on, although I know some here do. Wehrlein is good, but is he good enough, I don’t know. I know Fret doesn’t agree with me, but I just feel Williams are going to sign him. Will he be OK? Who knows?

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Boromedic said:

Fretwired said:

steer said:

Williams are screwed. There are no good experienced drivers left on the market to go alongside their $lightly unin$piring rookie. 

There's always Palmer ...

I don't think this is a bad shout tbh, although I'd have Wehrlein or Kvyatt over him (obvs not sure where they stand on the sponsor thing).

In other news the tyre test today had Kubica 0.1secs behind Massas quali time. Although fuel and other factors at play, plus a warmer track probably. Although he set that on the new hyper softs which are a grade softer than the ultras, also he was only 0.5secs quicker than Sirotkin who did has quickest lap on softs, 3 grades harder. Hmmm I'm not sure, it was at this point Renault cooled their interest so we will see. I suppose my hesitation with him is that I'd also hate him to come back and embarass himself. We shall see what Williams think after they've gone through all that data.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42170859

I’m not sure Palmer ever cut the mustard, and I’ve never rated Di Resta for reasons I can’t put my finger on, although I know some here do. Wehrlein is good, but is he good enough, I don’t know. I know Fret doesn’t agree with me, but I just feel Williams are going to sign him. Will he be OK? Who knows?

I think Palmer deserves a test at least .. Renault were a shit team this year by their own admission. He hardly got much race time.

Williams can look at the data till the end of time the problem will be racing - you need quick reactions to move a car and complete an overtake. Can he do that? He could end up getting stuck behind back markers. All he has done is go round and round an empty track. I wouldn't hire him but Williams have made some odd decisions in recent years.

The advantage of Di Resta is he comes with Mercedes support. To be honest the Williams car doesn't look that great. All their talent is spent making things for other companies these days.

Boromedic

Yep thats exactly my point too, when he has to swerve to avoid contact in a bottle neck at the first chicane how will he do.....

sinbaadi

Someone give Charles leClerc a seat!  Kid is a cut above in gp2.

lewism

LeClerc is part of the Ferrari driver program. Now that Sauber / Alfa are effectively the junior Ferrari team, I'd expect him to show up there sooner rather than later.

simonk

I think Williams need Kubica in the other car, for the exposure and to be part of the (I hope) good news story if nothing else. They’ve spent the last couple of years with the best engine doing a second rate job (compared to Force India for example), languishing in the middle of the mid-field. Stroll is hit and miss at best and although I still rate Massa, he’s never really looked on it like before his accident. Di Resta and Palmer and both capable, but make for a pretty uninspiring line up in my opinion.
Signing Kubica carries some risk, but there’s some glory that goes with it... and I think Williams need a bit of that. As I’ve said before, I don’t think Kubica would put himself forward for the drive if he didn’t think he was capable... he strikes me as a fairly pragmatic man.

Lastly, could he do any worse than Luca Badoer when they stuck him in the second Ferrari a few years ago? Remember him? Poor chap.

sweepy

sinbaadi said:

Someone give Charles leClerc a seat!  Kid is a cut above in gp2.

Too young for Williams unfortunately, he deserved a slot for 2018 but then Kimi only has a one year deal 

Pablo

simonk said:

Lastly, could he do any worse than Luca Badoer when they stuck him in the second Ferrari a few years ago? Remember him? Poor chap.

He was apparently nicknamed "Look How Bad I Are" by the British press.

chillidoggy

Kubica 0.1 seconds faster than Stroll in the test yesterday.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

You can't expect Kubica to get in an F1 car and be competitive day one. Davidson was thrown into an F1 car at short notice when Massa fell ill and did OK - he was at the back of the field though. Commentators said he'd done well. Button didn't do that well when he filled in for Alonso. The cars have changed so much since Kubica was racing.

I can't see him being given a contract to be honest.

I've always thought it an odd thing for them to be chasing, what with so much young talent with more recent racing experience

Fretwired

Mercedes and Ferrari say they may quit if the planned engine changes are implemented.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-echo-ferraris-f1-quit-threat/

steer

Sabre ratting, political games. Don't read too much into it. 

sweepy

Fretwired said:

Mercedes and Ferrari say they may quit if the planned engine changes are implemented.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-echo-ferraris-f1-quit-threat/

Ferrari have been threatening to quit since the 60’s, the needle is stuck a bit there

Fretwired

steer said:

Sabre ratting, political games. Don't read too much into it. 

I'm not. F1 can't afford to lose Ferrari or Mercedes. The problem is they will want to keep the status quo which may see a decline in F1 as the boring races continue.

chillidoggy

What're the viewing figures like these days? The grandstands might be full on race days, but that's the acid test.

Fretwired

Interesting article with Charlie Whiting and others ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/01/sports/autoracing/f1-needs-more-competition.html

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

steer said:

Sabre ratting, political games. Don't read too much into it. 

I'm not. F1 can't afford to lose Ferrari or Mercedes. The problem is they will want to keep the status quo which may see a decline in F1 as the boring races continue.

Yes it can afford to lose them. As you've pointed out previously, Mercedes have received huge publicity from F1 and made financial gains so relies on the sport.

Ferrari rely on F1 to advertise their brand more than any other source. Ferrari's failings in the second half of the season got rather more coverage than the successful AF Corse team winning the WEC LMGTE Pro category this year did in the 488.

It's also notable that sportscar racing around the globe has seen a drop in Ferrari numbers from the days of the 458 with Audi and Mercedes increasing (not coincidentally, the Audi R8 and Merc are about $100,000 cheaper). If you're not selling sportscars to sportscar teams and privateers (and I can think of several amateur drivers who went from the 458 to Mercedes and Audi), then you need F1 to help sell your cars to rappers, footballers, and the more financially flush members of the clergy. 

Now if we had cars that drove and sounded like the Formula Thunder 5000 stuff down in Australia, the disappearance of a quiet sounding Ferrari wouldn't be so bad...

simonk

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

steer said:

Sabre ratting, political games. Don't read too much into it. 

I'm not. F1 can't afford to lose Ferrari or Mercedes. The problem is they will want to keep the status quo which may see a decline in F1 as the boring races continue.

Yes it can afford to lose them. As you've pointed out previously, Mercedes have received huge publicity from F1 and made financial gains so relies on the sport.

Ferrari rely on F1 to advertise their brand more than any other source. Ferrari's failings in the second half of the season got rather more coverage than the successful AF Corse team winning the WEC LMGTE Pro category this year did in the 488.

It's also notable that sportscar racing around the globe has seen a drop in Ferrari numbers from the days of the 458 with Audi and Mercedes increasing (not coincidentally, the Audi R8 and Merc are about $100,000 cheaper). If you're not selling sportscars to sportscar teams and privateers (and I can think of several amateur drivers who went from the 458 to Mercedes and Audi), then you need F1 to help sell your cars to rappers, footballers, and the more financially flush members of the clergy. 

Now if we had cars that drove and sounded like the Formula Thunder 5000 stuff down in Australia, the disappearance of a quiet sounding Ferrari wouldn't be so bad...

Ha, that sounds epic. How long before someone resourceful comes up with a way to dub that soundtrack over the live feed..? A bit like buying a Golf GTD that plays beefed up engine noises over the stereo.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

steer said:

Sabre ratting, political games. Don't read too much into it. 

I'm not. F1 can't afford to lose Ferrari or Mercedes. The problem is they will want to keep the status quo which may see a decline in F1 as the boring races continue.

Yes it can afford to lose them. As you've pointed out previously, Mercedes have received huge publicity from F1 and made financial gains so relies on the sport.

They are engine manufacturers. If Mercedes and Ferrari pulled out of the new regs there's no guarantee there would be enough companies making engines. F1 would be left with Honda and Renault and possibly Aston Martin/Cosworth. That's why Bernie wanted a white box engine made by a company like Cosworth and a standard chassis so private companies, like Haas, could enter the sport and compete. It also meant he wasn't exposed if a big player left.

I think the issue for Mercedes is F1 no longer fits its profile. Mercedes is entering Formula E and in the longer term that will be more relevant to what it sells car wise. The same maybe true for Ferrari and Renault.

That may be good for F1. It could simply say this is edge of the pants racing and become the last bastion of the big V8 engine with lots of noise and spectacle with independent teams. F1 could supply an engine via a company like Cosworth and we could have a great sport with fast close racing and more teams as the budgets are reduced. With everything else being electric F1 would be unique. Not relevant to modern car design but great entertainment.

Heartfeltdawn

That twin status (as team and engine manufacturer) to my mind coupled with the Long Standing Team cash given to Ferrari is all part of the reason why F1 sucks. Yes it's been better this season, yes we've had five different winners this season (the largest mix for some years) but it's still been mostly tedious. 

Like the political thread about government overspending and how nobody is prepared to bite the bullet over something like foreign aid, so someone needs to do the same with Ferrari and Mercedes. If it means a year of limited engines for teams, so be it. For years, all these changes in F1 have done absolutely shit all to make F1 better at the core. For every set of big wheels, for every new compound, for every engine change, we've seen the overall quality go down. It's not entertaining. The best open-wheel series this year has been GP2 by a long way and it has been for some time. 

Now if Liberty did go down the route with a customer engine and standard chassis, then you wonder where that would leave the like of McLaren who really are about chassis design. Would that leave teams concentrating on aerodynamics? Generally more advanced aero in recent years has meant less passing and it being very hard to follow another car. Also, having stock chassis etc is good for costs but put this against notions of more and more races per season. 

F1 wants to be the most technologically advanced but that doesn't make for the best racing. Personally I'd love a less technologically advanced F1. Something raw and brutal would sell to a new audience, perhaps in a similar way to how MMA and UFC have increased in stature and audience, a new no bullshit conflict based sport that doesn't have the theatrical wank of big card boxing. Fuck it, put up back in V8s with manual shifters, as little electronics as possible, and watch the fun.