The F1 thread

Cols

Red Bull are reportedly interested in buying the Honda F1 engine design and manufacturing it in house, but only if an engine freeze is put in place.  Given the gutless nature of their current engine, Ferrari are understandably not enthusiastic about the idea.

Cue toys exiting pram at Milton Keynes...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-f1-quit-threat/

Fretwired

Cols said:

Red Bull are reportedly interested in buying the Honda F1 engine design and manufacturing it in house, but only if an engine freeze is put in place.  Given the gutless nature of their current engine, Ferrari are understandably not enthusiastic about the idea.

Cue toys exiting pram at Milton Keynes...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-f1-quit-threat/

Ferrari should be told to duck off .. F1 needs another engine and a team that can attack Mercedes .. that's Red Bull, not Ferrari. I'm pretty sure Red Bull could develop the engine then we might see Max and Lewis going wheel to wheel on the track. Ferrari is going to be a few years away from that.

First big test for the ex-Ferrari dominated FIA ....

Fretwired

And Gasly to replace Ocon (according to Paul di Resta)? Gasly seemingly wants out from anything to do with Red Bull.

chillidoggy

Let’s face it, it wouldn’t be the first time a team has chucked its toys out, Red Bull is no stranger to it, if my memory serves me correctly.

Cols

Fretwired said:

And Gasly to replace Ocon (according to Paul di Resta)? Gasly seemingly wants out from anything to do with Red Bull.

Rumours are that’s why Marko and Horner are dead-set against a Gasly return to Red Bull; he’s put noses out of joint by chasing a drive with the hated Renault.

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

Red Bull are reportedly interested in buying the Honda F1 engine design and manufacturing it in house, but only if an engine freeze is put in place.  Given the gutless nature of their current engine, Ferrari are understandably not enthusiastic about the idea.

Cue toys exiting pram at Milton Keynes...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-f1-quit-threat/

Ferrari should be told to duck off .. F1 needs another engine and a team that can attack Mercedes .. that's Red Bull, not Ferrari. I'm pretty sure Red Bull could develop the engine then we might see Max and Lewis going wheel to wheel on the track. Ferrari is going to be a few years away from that.

First big test for the ex-Ferrari dominated FIA ....

That’s the point - Red Bull don’t want to develop the engine.  They want to buy the design and manufacturing capabilities and then have everything frozen so further development is banned.  They have neither the technical capability nor the financial will to do engine development.

Interesting choice; lose 40% of the grid, or the crown jewel team.  AFAIK Ferrari still have their veto, so that’s a pretty cast iron defence.

Fretwired

Cols said:

That’s the point - Red Bull don’t want to develop the engine. 

That's not strictly true. From what I have read they would partner with someone but they would need time to get up to speed with the tech. Buying an engine and not developing it is a dead-end - a waste of money. It makes no sense. Red Bull want things frozen for one year - 2022.

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

That’s the point - Red Bull don’t want to develop the engine. 

That's not strictly true. From what I have read they would partner with someone but they would need time to get up to speed with the tech. Buying an engine and not developing it is a dead-end - a waste of money. It makes no sense. Red Bull want things frozen for one year - 2022.

To quote Marko: "We would favour, provided the talks with Honda are positive, that we take over the IP rights and everything that is necessary, to then prepare and deploy the engines ourselves in Milton Keynes.

"But this is only possible on condition that the engines are frozen by the first race in 2022 at the latest. We cannot afford further development, neither technically nor financially. That is a prerequisite."

That doesn’t suggest a one year freeze to me; it indicates a full engine development freeze from the point that they take on the Honda engine.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

That’s the point - Red Bull don’t want to develop the engine. 

That's not strictly true. From what I have read they would partner with someone but they would need time to get up to speed with the tech. Buying an engine and not developing it is a dead-end - a waste of money. It makes no sense. Red Bull want things frozen for one year - 2022.

To quote Marko: "We would favour, provided the talks with Honda are positive, that we take over the IP rights and everything that is necessary, to then prepare and deploy the engines ourselves in Milton Keynes.

"But this is only possible on condition that the engines are frozen by the first race in 2022 at the latest. We cannot afford further development, neither technically nor financially. That is a prerequisite."

That doesn’t suggest a one year freeze to me; it indicates a full engine development freeze from the point that they take on the Honda engine.

I read that but that doesn't make sense, the FIA would never agree to it and from what I have read Red Bull has been hawking this around the market looking for a partner. I'll find a link.

Mercedes, Renault, and Ferrari will get some minor performance gains out of their engines for 2021 and 2022 - Red Bull may get something for 2021 but that's it. The engine would be a technical dead-end in 2022. The FIA wants to move to biofuels which makes perfect sense from a marketing point of view - no evil petrol fumes - which gives Red Bull 24 months at best (assuming the FIA pushes the 10% biofuel content back) a year. Then what are they going to do? Hope VW turns up - it isn't going to happen. Honda will want serious cash for it's IP. It makes no sense.

I read a likely outcome (Coultard I think) could be Red Bull cash, Honda branding, and a partner that handles the build and development. Honda could have some technical staff on the team and benefit from developments and thus release the tech for peanuts - Mugen Motorsports could be an obvious candidate so Red Bull has a Honda-Mugen engine. Honda can still shift most of its engineers onto road car development but still get a branding connection with F1.

Marko plays games. I wouldn't believe a word he says most of the time. I doubt the meeting with Renault went very well. New boss - same as the old boss and all that. Sorry isn't a word in Marko's vocabulary.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/who-could-take-on-honda-engine-development-for-red-bull/

TimmyO

The worst thing about this situation is that it's making me agree with Ferrari! There are sensible options available that don't require a change to the existing engine regs plans. 

Fretwired

Interesting comments from Marko. Yuki Tsunoda will drive for AlphaTauri in 2021 while Sergio Perez and Nico Hulkenberg are options for Red Bull if Albon doesn't improve.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-driver-options/

Cols

Kvyat is a dead man walking then, unless something happens to deny Tsunoda a superlicence.  And Gasly has done something to ensure that he’ll only drive again for Red Bull over the dead body of someone very important.

Being in the Red Bull Junior programme looks like a pretty terrible career path.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Kvyat is a dead man walking then, unless something happens to deny Tsunoda a superlicence.  And Gasly has done something to ensure that he’ll only drive again for Red Bull over the dead body of someone very important.

Being in the Red Bull Junior programme looks like a pretty terrible career path.

I think Kvyat is dead. If Tsunoda fails to get a superlicence then Perez or the Hulk will probably get a seat.

Cols

Turns out that after Stroll felt unwell and pulled out of the last GP he hopped on a plane, travelled back to Canada and... tested positive for COVID-19.

Twat.  Racing Point are going to be in trouble.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lance-stroll-tests-positive-covid-19/

Fretwired

Cols said:

Turns out that after Stroll felt unwell and pulled out of the last GP he hopped on a plane, travelled back to Canada and... tested positive for COVID-19.

Twat.  Racing Point are going to be in trouble.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lance-stroll-tests-positive-covid-19/

Yikes .... calling the Hulk .... :-)

stickyfiddle

Yeah, you can't help but feel both RP guys are taking too many risks. 

If Stroll tested positive after the race, does that mean he has to skip this weekend? It won't have been 14 days since his positive test - I'm not sure what F1's rules are on timings. 

Cols

Stroll says he’s now tested negative, so okay for Portugal.

The big question for RP to answer is whether his condition was suspected and they purposely avoided testing him in order to keep his side of the garage operational.

Fretwired

Looks like Williams are binning Russell and signing Perez ... a shame if Russell's F1 career is over.

fretmeister

Fretwired said:

Looks like Williams are binning Russell and signing Perez ... a shame if Russell's F1 career is over.

1 year Merc test driver - then in Bottas seat.
Or they'll buy Bottas out of next year's contract and he'll call it a day.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

Looks like Williams are binning Russell and signing Perez ... a shame if Russell's F1 career is over.

Citation required. They'd be absolutely insane to drop Russell and keep Latifi. Don't they have Russell partly in return for discounted Mercedes engines? 

Racefans had a good analysis here: https://www.racefans.net/2020/10/19/russell-out-schumacher-to-haas-whats-behind-the-2021-silly-season-rumours/ ;