The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

I was just going to say- the F3 race just now was absolutely brilliant. I hope the F1 is at least interesting. Rain would be good; or they could just turn the sprinklers on..!

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Bit of rain around during the support races this morning, and there's still a chance for a bit of rain this afternoon. Finger's crossed!!!

DesVegas

Twenty degree drop in track temp than yesterday

stickyfiddle

DesVegas said:

Twenty degree drop in track temp than yesterday

Excellent - and that was already a fair whack lower than Friday so their race sims in FP2 will be less useful

YellowLedBetterMan

Good lord this is an ugly track. Whenever they go to a high shot from the skies it's like one of those optical illusion pictures. Lines and colours everywhere.

not_the_dj

Loving this season!

YellowLedBetterMan

That was as good a final few laps as we could've hoped for. Verstappen had a fantastic race, as did the two McLarens.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Well that was about as exciting as you could have hoped for a dry Grand Prix at Paul Ricard, enjoyed that!

So unusual to see Mercedes making some poor strategy decisions. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Merc debrief, Valterri was not a happy bunny!!

Wonder what was going on at Ferrari? I had Sainz in my fantasy team, with Ferrari as the team. Thought I was gonna be well set up as a result, but they just went backwards.

Fretwired

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

So unusual to see Mercedes making some poor strategy decisions. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Merc debrief, Valterri was not a happy bunny!!

Hamilton was honest in his interview - he thought Max and Red Bull were too fast, particularly on the straights. He admitted he was 'gifted' the lead via a mistake from Max but conceded that he didn't think he could win. He didn't blame the team. Bottas can moan, but it was his error that forced the early pitstops.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

So unusual to see Mercedes making some poor strategy decisions. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Merc debrief, Valterri was not a happy bunny!!

Hamilton was honest in his interview - he thought Max and Red Bull were too fast, particularly on the straights. He admitted he was 'gifted' the lead via a mistake from Max but conceded that he didn't think he could win. He didn't blame the team. Bottas can moan, but it was his error that forced the early pitstops.

he may have been faster on the straights, but he wasn't required to do the business one the track first time around because RB called the undercut more confidently and/or accurately than Mercedes.

If the result of being undercut is no good response then don't get undercut. I think they got caught being indecisive having been unexpectedly handed track position. 

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

So unusual to see Mercedes making some poor strategy decisions. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Merc debrief, Valterri was not a happy bunny!!

Hamilton was honest in his interview - he thought Max and Red Bull were too fast, particularly on the straights. He admitted he was 'gifted' the lead via a mistake from Max but conceded that he didn't think he could win. He didn't blame the team. Bottas can moan, but it was his error that forced the early pitstops.

he may have been faster on the straights, but he wasn't required to do the business one the track first time around because RB called the undercut more confidently and/or accurately than Mercedes.

If the result of being undercut is no good response then don't get undercut. I think they got caught being indecisive having been unexpectedly handed track position. 

But it wasn't the undercut that won the race. Mercedes had their hand forced by Bottas wrecking his tyres so they had to pit early - RB had to cover Bottas so did the same. Perez was left out to run a long game which was clever strategy-wise. The race was won because Red Bull did a Mercedes and opted for a second stop giving Max a faster tyre - he did to Lewis what Lewis had done to him before - he hunted him down and overtook him. Mercedes mistake was not to pit their drivers for a second stop - the tyres were clearly going to lose most of their performance on a long stint on such an abrasive circuit.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

So unusual to see Mercedes making some poor strategy decisions. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Merc debrief, Valterri was not a happy bunny!!

Hamilton was honest in his interview - he thought Max and Red Bull were too fast, particularly on the straights. He admitted he was 'gifted' the lead via a mistake from Max but conceded that he didn't think he could win. He didn't blame the team. Bottas can moan, but it was his error that forced the early pitstops.

he may have been faster on the straights, but he wasn't required to do the business one the track first time around because RB called the undercut more confidently and/or accurately than Mercedes.

If the result of being undercut is no good response then don't get undercut. I think they got caught being indecisive having been unexpectedly handed track position. 

But it wasn't the undercut that won the race. Mercedes had their hand forced by Bottas wrecking his tyres so they had to pit early - RB had to cover Bottas so did the same. Perez was left out to run a long game which was clever strategy-wise. The race was won because Red Bull did a Mercedes and opted for a second stop giving Max a faster tyre - he did to Lewis what Lewis had done to him before - he hunted him down and overtook him. Mercedes mistake was not to pit their drivers for a second stop - the tyres were clearly going to lose most of their performance on a long stint on such an abrasive circuit.

I was making the point it was the team who failed the drivers. Your 2 posts seem to say that wasn't and was the case. 

Cols

Mercedes were cornered on strategy; after losing the lead at the beginning, Hamilton was leapfrogged at the first pitstop by Verstappen being much quicker on his in lap, stop and out lap.  

With track position again, Red Bull had the upper hand.  After Verstappen pitted first, Merc had the choice of pitting Hamilton - and certainly coming out behind Max - or leaving him out and hoping he could hold off Verstappen towards the end.  Leaving him out was the least-worst option, which at least gave him a chance at victory.  Unfortunately he’d thrashed his tyres a bit trying to push Verstappen, so they were gone by the end.

Bottas might have been able to salvage 3rd on a 2 stopper, but at the cost of Mercedes being unable to use him to hold Verstappen up.

Simonh

I think Merc knew that Hamilton wouldn't be able to chase Verstappen down and pass him so I think you are right, leaving him out at least gave him a chance of victory whereas pitting him again almost certainly took that away. I do however think they should have pitted Bottas again as that would have given him a chance of third that leaving him out took away.

euan

So anyone able to tell me why the 30th of June is important?

TimmyO

Simonh said:

I think Merc knew that Hamilton wouldn't be able to chase Verstappen down and pass him so I think you are right, leaving him out at least gave him a chance of victory whereas pitting him again almost certainly took that away. I do however think they should have pitted Bottas again as that would have given him a chance of third that leaving him out took away.

I was convinced they'd split strategy once Verstappen 2-stopped - maybe they were seeing data that made it an obviously worse idea that they didn't want to share over the radio 

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

But it wasn't the undercut that won the race. Mercedes had their hand forced by Bottas wrecking his tyres so they had to pit early - RB had to cover Bottas so did the same. Perez was left out to run a long game which was clever strategy-wise. The race was won because Red Bull did a Mercedes and opted for a second stop giving Max a faster tyre - he did to Lewis what Lewis had done to him before - he hunted him down and overtook him. Mercedes mistake was not to pit their drivers for a second stop - the tyres were clearly going to lose most of their performance on a long stint on such an abrasive circuit.

I was making the point it was the team who failed the drivers. Your 2 posts seem to say that wasn't and was the case. 

Even RB was amazed at the power of the undercut. My point was the first stop was forced on Mercedes as Bottas ruined his tyres and could have had a suspension failure - he, therefore, had to pit first. Verstappen pitted to cover Bottas and had an amazing out-lap. Hamilton lost the lead. However, Hamilton chased Verstappen down and it was clear Max wouldn't make it to the end of the race on his tyres. The team could have pitted Hamilton for new rubber - however, RB had out-thought them and had Perez in a great position to block this move.

I'm not sure Mercedes did anything wrong - even Hamilton refused to blame the strategy guys. Hindsight is great. RB played a blinder, Max was quicker and Perez is now up to speed as a wingman and will only get better. From where I'm sitting it's RB for the Constructors title. Yet again Bottas cocked up. Wolff should roll the dice and get Russell on board.

stickyfiddle

RB did to Merc exactly what Merc has done to them quite a few times. Ham had no real chance, but as soon as Max pitted the best defence was to stay out and try and resist the overtake for the last couple of laps. RB had the quicker car all weekend so that just didn't quite stick. Bodes very well for the rest of the season.

Fretwired

Yas Marina set for circuit changes to aid overtaking at F1 finale:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/yas-marina-set-for-circuit-changes-to-aid-overtaking-at-f1-finale

stickyfiddle

Yas changes are good news. The hairpin is the big one, not sure about the later complex - that was where we sat each time we've been and was previously the only real overtaking spot on the track. But sounds like they're aiming for a Mugello-T1 style corner with plenty of camber, which would mean 2 cars can go side by side right round. Could be good if they get it right. 

After watching Formula E at Monaco I really do think it's 90% the aero & tyres that are the issue though - they just can't get up behind someone without shredding their tyres and can't get enough behind in corners and braking zones. Bring on 2022...