The F1 thread

chillidoggy

Cols said:

Boromedic said:

Come on now, Red Bull wouldn't cheat would they? Can't believe such a thing....

Oh, I’m sure it’s perfectly legal.  Adrian Newey (and every other great engineer) has made a career out of looking at the technical regulation and thinking “Well it doesn’t say I’m not allowed to do that”.

So there’s a clever workaround somewhere.  Normally my view is that if someone's come up with an innovation it's the job of the other teams to work out how to do it themselves, rather than go crying to the FIA and get it banned.

However, in this case?  Imagine if every team had a DRS function that gave them a 20mph speed boost every time they activated it.  Overtaking would become even more of a joke than it already is.

So find out what it is and ban it.  And while you're at it, ban DRS as well.  I remember back when overtaking took a lot more skill, delicacy and bravery than it does these days.  Kamui Kobayashi in particular was a fantastic 'Where did that come from?' overtaker, but once DRS came in there was no particular need for his rare talent.

Yes, but pre-DRS I recall we were all moaning about the lack of overtaking, me included. A race without it is likely to be even more boring!

dazzajl

IIRC, DRS was introduced to help drivers get into a position to mount an overtake attempt in the braking zone, not to let cars sail by on the straights. It might not need removing but it very much needs resetting. 

Boromedic

Horner would never complain if others stole a march would he....

chillidoggy

And Horner was right, wasn’t he?

stickyfiddle

Right that RB stood no hope. But not that interest in F1 waned. 

Boromedic

No, not at all because unlike RB, either driver was allowed to win and they could race each other. They clearly favour Max and would never employ a driver that could go head to head with him. 

Therefore the season is more boring because it's the Verstappen show. At least we had some drama with the Rosberg v Hamilton battle. Plus RBs advantage is greater than Mercs ever was.

Cols

At least there was a fight between Rosberg and Hamilton from 2014-2016. Even if the other teams didn’t get a look-in, there was competition.

If Red Bull have a similar advantage, it’ll just be a walk in the park for Verstappen.  Perez isn’t a serious challenge to him.

dazzajl

Cols said:

At least there was a fight between Rosberg and Hamilton from 2014-2016. Even if the other teams didn’t get a look-in, there was competition.

If Red Bull have a similar advantage, it’ll just be a walk in the park for Verstappen.  Perez isn’t a serious challenge to him.

And Max will congratulate himself on being the greatest and spit out his dummy if anyone raises the point that he’s had no competition. Twat. 

fretmeister

Yup. Someone should ask him if he's pleased he's got a Bottas instead of a Rosberg for a team mate.

chillidoggy

Like shooting fish in a barrel!

sinbaadi

Are we again complaining that a championship whose very ethos is to encourage and reward technical brilliance, above all else, lacks the parity of a series that takes that out of the equation?

I'm all for reducing the potential of this happening with spec parts and "pretend" variations in design, different badges on the same power units etc, but unless that happens, F1 is giving us exactly what we are asking it to.  Huge disparity of performance, irrelevant drivers and championships that are 1 or 2 horse races.

Horner is an absolute joker and biggest hypocrite in the paddock, but he's earning his salary.

Boromedic

^^no we're not complaining, that's F1 and the outcome of the new regs was entirely predictable given the changes. Most of us are just pointing out to the RB fan club that they're now championing what they were whinging about before. 

Mercedes dominance really only lasted till 2016. After that Ferrari could and should have won titles as could have RB, so competition was restored. I'm hoping the changing tracks coming up will reduce the RB deficit, but if they walk the season, so be it. It's never that I'd complain about, I loved it when Schumacher dominated. However I'll have a joke and a dig along the way, especially at RB fans and Horner and Max.

Cols

James Key has been sacked as McLaren Technical Director, and they’ve reverted to their wretchedly complicated matrix structure which prevailed up to 2019, with separate directors responsible for aero, chassis and car concept.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/key-out-sanchez-in-as-mclaren-restructures-f1-team/10447548/

Deadman

Interesting podcast insight on the W14 here. Have a listen if you’ve got an hour to spare:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1SqJdSwCjRO5aL4RkWAKAC?si=sGTrSNg4R5edAJ48ZyNgZw

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

James Key has been sacked as McLaren Technical Director, and they’ve reverted to their wretchedly complicated matrix structure which prevailed up to 2019, with separate directors responsible for aero, chassis and car concept.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/key-out-sanchez-in-as-mclaren-restructures-f1-team/10447548/

Ditching Key seems to be sensible given how bad the car is.

The restructure feels like a potentially short-sighted attempt to just recreate the structure that last won them a race. Or it might be that they simply don't have (& can't quickly get) the right people in the organisation to do it any other way. Either way it's going to be another long year

Boromedic

Deadman said:

Interesting podcast insight on the W14 here. Have a listen if you’ve got an hour to spare:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1SqJdSwCjRO5aL4RkWAKAC?si=sGTrSNg4R5edAJ48ZyNgZw

Cheers for this, looks interesting

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

James Key has been sacked as McLaren Technical Director, and they’ve reverted to their wretchedly complicated matrix structure which prevailed up to 2019, with separate directors responsible for aero, chassis and car concept.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/key-out-sanchez-in-as-mclaren-restructures-f1-team/10447548/

Ditching Key seems to be sensible given how bad the car is.

The restructure feels like a potentially short-sighted attempt to just recreate the structure that last won them a race. Or it might be that they simply don't have (& can't quickly get) the right people in the organisation to do it any other way. Either way it's going to be another long year

I’m assuming you mean the last time they were competitive at a championship level; Ricciardo did win at Monza in a James Key McLaren (albeit rather fortuitously).

The matrix structure which they’ve reinstalled was last seen during Eric Boullier’s disastrous stint as racing director.  It didn’t work then, and I don’t believe it’s going to work now.

Inevitably there’s going to be different groups within the team all working on separate areas; one group working on the aero, another on the cooling, another on the suspension, another on the gearbox, etc.  There really needs to be one person to pull those areas together and make the compromises – because there will be compromises – and that‘s the Technical Director. 

Without that person, you’ve got different factions and they’ll all be saying “well it’s not my fault, it’s the other group’s fault.”

If you had to pick one thing where McLaren have slipped up this year, it’s not the structure.  It’s cutbacks in the aero department last year in order to deal with the cost cap; this year’s McLaren is not aerodynamically efficient and they’re playing catch-up.  On top of that, they’ve been relying on Toyota’s wind tunnel in Cologne while their in-house tunnel isn’t due to be fully functional until June.

chillidoggy

Why are wind tunnels so bloody expensive? I mean, it's a big tube with a bloody great fan at one end, and some sensors on the floor. Is it the software that costs an arm and a leg, or what?

Boromedic

Must be cheaper at RB, all they do is get Horner to blow hot air down a subway.....

Cols

chillidoggy said:

Why are wind tunnels so bloody expensive? I mean, it's a big tube with a bloody great fan at one end, and some sensors on the floor. Is it the software that costs an arm and a leg, or what?

Apart from being massive…

1.  The airflow needs to be of very high quality and precisely controlled.  If it’s variable, you won’t know if the difference you see in measurements is due to something clever you’ve done with your new aerodynamic bit or if it’s just down to a wobbly fan.

2.  You need a rolling road in the wind tunnel to simulate how the car and track interact.

3.  The rolling road has to be as rigid as possible - tarmac doesn’t get sucked up against the underbody of the car model, but a big floppy conveyor belt would.

4.  Because placing a model in the tunnel creates a blockage, you need adaptive walls to ensure the air velocity doesn’t change every time you use a new model.

5.  You need a way of controlling the attitude and ride height of your model without affecting the airflow.

Probably a lot more, but that’s for starters.