The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

I think Max has every right to be a little frustrated but he also doesn't need to be a dick about it. 

The reality is nothing the team did yesterday caused him any real problems - he had the 2nd fastest car and couldve finished an easy 3rd if he'd kept cool, but instead he ended up 5th and risked 6th after a possible penalty. And with Mclaren and (particular Hamilton's) Merc roughly at par with him for pace he can't risk that for second half of the season. 

fretmeister

TimmyO said:

TimmyO said:

Emiel said:

Apart from the furious radio ranting, I can understand Verstappens frustration. It seems like his team is truly falling apart and McLaren is now beating them fair and square in both pace and strategy. Red Bulls major update package didn't deliver and it in fact made the car worse to drive (too much understeer, hence Perez doing better during the race).

I'm really curious to see when Verstappen has had enough and switches to Mercedes in 2026 or even next year. Toto is definitely waiting desperately, especially now Antonelli is doing well now in F2.

He'd have beat Lewis on tyre offset if he'd brought the tyres in property and been less red mist about it. The team did their part to optimise his result based on where the cars were at on the day.

He was already too mad to think straight because the car wasn't handling how he wants it. 

That's not a team 'falling apart' imo 

Although I do also acknowledge that I say all this sat eating a sandwich in Swindon. There's not one of us here who has even an inkling of what it's like to be someone who can do what they do, and to have had to do what they've done to get there. They are ALL outliers and we sit and judge and comment from our poorly informed comfort. (Me as guilty as anyone) 

There's loads of different versions of this but...

sinbaadi

I'd like to see the telemetry.  Maybe we'll get Jolyon Palmer analysis.  Having watched some of the post race now, it seems Anthony Davidson also thought it was not the "normal" line to diagonal towards a very early apex.  If that's the case then Max was compromised and couldn't brake in a straight line. 

gavin_axecaster

The stewards saw the telemetry and don't agree with you or Mr. Davidson.

sinbaadi

And it will be very easy to show that to put any dissenting opinions to rest.

Cols

Yeah, the stewards did look at this and noted the following in their investigation:

”Car 1 approached the turn faster than on previous laps (due to DRS) and braked at the same point as previously. The driver of Car 1 argued that Car 44 was changing direction under braking. The driver of Car 44 stated that he was simply following his normal racing line (which was confirmed by examination of video and telemetry evidence of previous laps).”

Apart from that - taking a different line from previous laps isn’t against the rules.  Alonso is a master at constantly changing his line slightly for defensive purposes, avoiding falling into a predictable pattern.

TimmyO

Watching it live did anyone NOT start wincing as soon as the lunge from that far back started? 

Boromedic

sinbaadi said:

I'd like to see the telemetry.  Maybe we'll get Jolyon Palmer analysis.  Having watched some of the post race now, it seems Anthony Davidson also thought it was not the "normal" line to diagonal towards a very early apex.  If that's the case then Max was compromised and couldn't brake in a straight line. 

Lol, that was overwhelmingly confirmed by the stewards that Lewis was taking a normal line as he had on previous laps, they have access to all the telemetry. He may have thought about taking a tighter line knowing Max was never going to be able to slow the car down enough to take the corner. Lewis gives him no quarter after his 21 shenanigans and knows how to play him, that's race craft Vs bombing down the inside. He's clever enough to know from that far back with DRS he's not going to make the turn, Lewis just made it difficult within the rules, and at the end of the day if Max hadn't attempted such a crude and basic manoeuvre then there wouldn't have been any contact. It's pretty simple really and there in black and white, Max was too consumed with red mist because that's who he is.

Lewis also played a blinder against him earlier in the race. It was all well played in my book.

stickyfiddle

TimmyO said:

Watching it live did anyone NOT start wincing as soon as the lunge from that far back started? 

Yes 100% 

You could see it a mile off and with that sort of lockup Max was never gimping to make the corner. That’s what irks me about the lack of penalty. It was Brazil 21 all over again - intent was to run the other guy off and go off yourself so you can’t be accused of just pushing him off the track directly. 

I’m actually amazed that he hasn’t had a really big accident yet and wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t have one this season - Lando, Oscar and Lewis definitely won’t yield to him now and neither will Leclerc if the Ferrari is fast enough. 

DesVegas

Does earning Pole Position mean nothing nowadays?

euan

It usually helps if you don’t get overtaken before the first corner 

TimmyO

Lando has horrid form for losing places at the start - my son and I joke about it now before every race and I'm a Lando fan! 

markr76

Perez was actually lapping quicker than Max for good portions of that race. Max was the one with the Redbull upgrade package on the car too. 

Perez upping his game this race was a pain for us as George could have finished a place higher. But he decided to turn up! 

This could be quite worrying for Redbull as it looks like their upgrade isn’t good. But it could have just been that track and conditions. Their previous update didn’t work
as planned either. It seemed to unsettle their car. Which shows how hard it is being out front with a target on your back!

boogieman

Just been reading Max’s after race interview. Everything is to blame except him: the tyres, the car, the upgrade package, the brake balance, the team, the race strategy, Lewis. Strangely no mention of his dodgy off track overtake on lap one or the gung ho, no chance, lock up lunge on Lewis. What a tosspot. I’ve never liked him personally but still had a grudging respect for him as a driver. Not any more. I hope he screws up this year and McLaren take it or the constructors title. 

breakstuff

boogieman said:

Just been reading Max’s after race interview. Everything is to blame except him: the tyres, the car, the upgrade package, the brake balance, the team, the race strategy, Lewis. Strangely no mention of his dodgy off track overtake on lap one or the gung ho, no chance, lock up lunge on Lewis. What a tosspot. I’ve never liked him personally but still had a grudging respect for him as a driver. Not any more. I hope he screws up this year and McLaren take it or the constructors title. 

I was starting to warm to him recently (just a little, mind  ), but after watching his antics and subsequent comments at the weekend, I've reverted back to considering him a huge bellend. Would absolutely love to see Lando nick the championship off him this year.

Boromedic

I listen to The Race F1 Podcast and it's Tech offshoot and Gary Anderson is usually on it, he's seen problems with the Red Bull updates that he's pretty sure Newey wouldn't have put on the car. More hens home to roost for the delightful Horner. The rest of the season is shaping up to 2021 levels of excitement.

Max will probably have to take an engine penalty at some point and without the car advantages that will be a tougher mission to get back up the points. Here's hoping Lando can chip away slowly. There's a lot of races left yet, mind you we need to see how they are in Belgium to see where they end up then to truly get a picture of the rest of the season. 

Cols

I think Max may have got as much out of the car on Saturday as could reasonably have been achieved.  It just wasn’t the quickest car.  Doesn’t mean it’s helpful to air a laundry list of complaints, but understandable.

Sunday was a different scruffy story and a reminder that Verstappen will easily revert to 2021 mode when he doesn’t have a clear technical advantage.

Much being made of the fact that Max was up to 3am playing computer games the night before the race.  I’m sure the team will be throwing that back in his face at the postmortem for the Grand Prix weekend.

stickyfiddle

Reddit’s carrying a story from a German site that Seidel is out at Audi, along with their chairman - massive infighting and Audi has had enough apparently. 

Egon Spengler Mattia Binnotto will be the new COO & CIO. No news on CEO or TP or generally what the fuck is going on over there..!

Cols

Confirmed by the Beeb.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/articles/ckvg0zpyn5zo

Not surprised TBH; the lack of progress is putting off prospective drivers, and the power struggle between Seidl and Hoffmann doesn’t lead to a happy working atmosphere.  The seeds of this were sown in March when Hoffmann was booted off the Audi board and parked in the F1 project with the responsibility of overseeing all pillars of Audi’s F1 project.  Which sounds an awful lot like Seidl’s job.

Hoffmann was urging the Audi Board to sack Seidl and hire Mike Krack from Aston Martin to replace him.  Seidl was advising the board to boot out Hoffmann, elevate himself to Chief Representative and appoint Krack as Audi Team Principal.  So they at least agreed on Krack.

It seems the board took a very evenhanded decision to sack them both and ignore the idea of bringing Krack into the team 

stickyfiddle

Honestly given how AM have fared I’m not sure I see the attraction of Krack either but what do I know? 

I also find it baffling that everyone seems to talk so highly of James Key - he’s never produced a really great car and headed the team that saw McLaren at the back of the grid at the start of last year.

The jury is still out on Seidl as an F1 guy, but at least it’s looking like the structural changes & capex upgrades at McLaren were absolutely the right way to go.

I wonder if this is partly a last-ditch attempt to get Sainz onboard.