Titanic tourist submersible gone missing

Chalky

I heard a comment "Just because its very dangerous shouldn't mean their lives were at risk".

I don't think folks understand what the word Dangerous means.  Dread to think of the reaction that will happen when the first space tourist flight accident occurs.

m_c

Did anybody else see the interview on the BBC this morning with the lecturer who mentioned that the Navy had picked up a pop on their listening equipment, that would have coincided with the initial loss of communication?

Seems like the command had already expected the worse.

theatreanchor

rze99 said:

It’s a tragedy and I feel for the families. RIP. 

There are other tragedies. 

I’m afraid I can’t help but compare and contrast recovery efforts here with what appears to be the deliberate lack of one for the 500 odd Greek island migrants.  RIP. 

Well said. 

LPManic

Maybe I am speaking out of turn, but certain news outlets leading with the headline that they were "true explorers" makes my blood boil in the context of the news the last few weeks. I am sick of the media, especially the left leaning papers that I read. 

lustycourtier

DiscoStu said:

I was working in Lossiemouth today and there were far more Typhoons flying from the RAF base than usual. You normally see 2 or 3 out on training runs but there were at least 6, maybe 8 that were buzzing around today. And then this MASSIVE plane took off over my head, followed later by a couple of private jets, all getting an escort from Typhoons.
Turns out the big boy was a C-17 Globemaster, loaded up with cables and headed for the search area. Amazing to think that the North of Scotland is involved in all of this.

And I imagine we are paying for that as well. Weird how the same attempts werent made off the coast of Greece last week...

goldtop

LionAquaLooper said:

https://twitter.com/stonking/status/1671945151961333784

In other arrogance-related news, Musk also boasted about not following accepted wisdom on the launch pad design. We saw how that went a couple of months ago.

And that's not the only concern: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/elon-musk-space-x-rocket-technology-major-safety-risk-nasa-advisers-falcon-9-silicon-valley-a8339061.html

darthed1981

rze99 said:

It’s a tragedy and I feel for the families. RIP. 

There are other tragedies. 

I’m afraid I can’t help but compare and contrast recovery efforts here with what appears to be the deliberate lack of one for the 500 odd Greek island migrants.  RIP. 

As was commented earlier on in the thread, it has rather pushed that out of the news hasn't it?

There are times when I get where conspiracy nuts are coming from.

Even if you ignore the old joke about the "deaths ratio" (one white Brit = 500 Indians) which always rang shockingly true, the overwhelming focus on five rich white people, including deploying everything that floats to look for them, compared to the possible murder (and leaving people to drown when you could rescue them is murder) of 500 innocents, is just, odd.

I'm still amazed ANY sailor, let alone a Naval Officer  would ignore the basic laws of the sea and let people drown though, even enemies in war are rescued.  They can't be ordered to let them drown either, as that would be an illegal order, you don't have to obey them.

RaymondLin

To break rules, first you need to understand why the rules exists.  If you are aware what the rules are for and breaking them doesn't contribute to your downfall, that's fine.  Breaking rules in physics, physics doesn't bend to your will and it will follow its own rules no matter who you are.

LionAquaLooper

LPManic said:

Maybe I am speaking out of turn, but certain news outlets leading with the headline that they were "true explorers" makes my blood boil in the context of the news the last few weeks. I am sick of the media, especially the left leaning papers that I read. 

Fair play.  I think it's fair for their friends and family to pay tribute to them but I don't see the need for some news outlets to make that a headline.  It's just over the top. 

 m_c said:

Did anybody else see the interview on the BBC this morning with the lecturer who mentioned that the Navy had picked up a pop on their listening equipment, that would have coincided with the initial loss of communication?

Seems like the command had already expected the worse.

Yes I saw that as well, and they didn't disclose it at the beginning to prevent media frenzy until they'd confirmed it.  There was also the fact that the Navy tech that detected it is meant to be top secret lol

Offset

LPManic said:

Maybe I am speaking out of turn, but certain news outlets leading with the headline that they were "true explorers" makes my blood boil in the context of the news the last few weeks. I am sick of the media, especially the left leaning papers that I read. 

That boiled my piss too.  This may be harsh, but they were mill/billionaire grave tourists.  Nothing to do with 'exploring'.  FFS, they couldn't even see the wreck for themselves  - only on a screen.   The tiny porthole wouldn't have afforded any sort of view.  They may just as well have been watching a live feed of the dive from their living room armchairs.  This was a pure vanity project - "we've dived to the wreck of the Titanic" - mere bragging rights.  If you then factor in all the time and money spent in tying to find them and compare it with all the time and money that WASN'T spent on the migrant tragedy off the coast of Greece... well, I don't know about anyone else but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

All of that said, it's still tragic.  But let's get it into perspective.

mrkb

RaymondLin said:

To break rules, first you need to understand why the rules exists.  If you are aware what the rules are for and breaking them doesn't contribute to your downfall, that's fine.  Breaking rules in physics, physics doesn't bend to your will and it will follow its own rules no matter who you are.

Agreed - theres a difference between breaking rules (to evolve science/knowledge) and ignoring rules (through lack of knowledge)

ICBM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2023/jun/23/james-cameron-titanic-sub-technology-sounded-bad-video

Sounds even more like an accident waiting to happen than it already appeared.

LionAquaLooper

RaymondLin said:

To break rules, first you need to understand why the rules exists.  If you are aware what the rules are for and breaking them doesn't contribute to your downfall, that's fine.  Breaking rules in physics, physics doesn't bend to your will and it will follow its own rules no matter who you are.

Agreed.  I've had to work with some people with this mentality, especially new joiners who just want to bulldoze anything that's already in place and criticise rules/workarounds/processes without even asking WHY those things were put in place.  It's mostly to hide their own deficiencies and insecurities like these "fake it til you make it" types. "Don't ask questions - it'll make you look stupid".  

I'm all for a fresh viewpoint, innovations and improvements because maybe these people do know a lot.  But fking understand the history first because they're so arrogant to think that everyone who came before them were dumb and don't want to entertain the thought that just maybe smarter people than them worked on these things for a long time before they came along.  

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.  I hope the people who are developing things like AI, genetic manipulation and other cutting edge tech are telling themselves this because this is exactly how the world ended up with the atom bomb.

Moe_Zambeek

Chesterton’s fence comes to mind.

axisus

ICBM said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2023/jun/23/james-cameron-titanic-sub-technology-sounded-bad-video

Sounds even more like an accident waiting to happen than it already appeared.

Interesting that Cameron of all people seems to have the words of wisdom. Considering the mad circus that went on for some days, he says in a BBC article:

"Their comms were lost, and navigation was lost - and I said instantly, you can't lose comms and navigation together without an extreme catastrophic event or high, highly energetic catastrophic event. And the first thing that popped to mind was an implosion."

Cameron told BBC News the past week had "felt like a prolonged and nightmarish charade where people are running around talking about banging noises and talking about oxygen and all this other stuff".

"I knew that sub was sitting exactly underneath its last known depth and position. That's exactly where they found it," he continued.

Seems like all those professionals involved in the 'search' were maybe either off the mark or playing games?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65994707

LionAquaLooper

axisus said:

ICBM said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2023/jun/23/james-cameron-titanic-sub-technology-sounded-bad-video

Sounds even more like an accident waiting to happen than it already appeared.

Interesting that Cameron of all people seems to have the words of wisdom. Considering the mad circus that went on for some days, he says in a BBC article:

"Their comms were lost, and navigation was lost - and I said instantly, you can't lose comms and navigation together without an extreme catastrophic event or high, highly energetic catastrophic event. And the first thing that popped to mind was an implosion."

Cameron told BBC News the past week had "felt like a prolonged and nightmarish charade where people are running around talking about banging noises and talking about oxygen and all this other stuff".

"I knew that sub was sitting exactly underneath its last known depth and position. That's exactly where they found it," he continued.

Seems like all those professionals involved in the 'search' were maybe either off the mark or playing games?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65994707

Or Cameron is playing Nostradamus now that there are actual facts.  Like other people, I bet he also had other theories in his head that were wrong.  Very easy to say you knew this and that AFTER the facts are out.

WezV

octatonic said:

Devil#20 said:

JezWynd said:

Now that a detailed 3D map has been created there's no reason to visit again save perhaps for occasional updates on how the structure is degrading. Tourism to the site is in bad taste even if they dress the visitors up as 'mission specialists'. Perhaps it's time to leave Titanic to rest in peace. 

I feel the same about Auschwitz and cannot understand why that is run as a tourist attraction. I was once asked to go and refused. Do they charge to visit the camp. If they don't it's a place of pilgrimage and reflection. If they do then it's a tourist attraction. 

LOL.
It isn't like it is a destination for a stag do.

As others have mentioned- it costs money to run.

My visit was part of a stag do 

We went to a shooting range the day before.

Neither of these activities particularly appealed to me, but I  struggled with the contrast between day 1 and 2.  Guys cumming in their pants about the size of semi automatic weapons one day, then the harsh reality of Auschwitz the next

ICBM

LionAquaLooper said:

Or Cameron is playing Nostradamus now that there are actual facts.  Like other people, I bet he also had other theories in his head that were wrong.  Very easy to say you knew this and that AFTER the facts are out.

It sounds to me more that he did say so beforehand. He does actually know what he’s talking about on this subject.

Moe_Zambeek

I would hope anyone looking would keep doing so until they had conclusive evidence one way or another. No doubt many experts had their doubts but would keep looking out of dedication and duty.

The media circus element is another thing entirely.

Gilly

axisus said:

Seems like all those professionals involved in the 'search' were maybe either off the mark or playing games?

I don’t know about playing games but they were clearly withholding information. 

The whole thing about the noises they heard which turned out to be other boats. They release that information to the press but they don’t say anything about the navy picking up a noise soon after communication was lost with the sub that is consistent with an implosion?

Why not release that information but say they will keep looking until they have more proof that it has actually imploded? I don’t buy the avoiding a media frenzy argument since there was one anyway.