Titanic tourist submersible gone missing

darthed1981

Gilly said:

axisus said:

Seems like all those professionals involved in the 'search' were maybe either off the mark or playing games?

I don’t know about playing games but they were clearly withholding information. 

The whole thing about the noises they heard which turned out to be other boats. They release that information to the press but they don’t say anything about the navy picking up a noise soon after communication was lost with the sub that is consistent with an implosion?

Why not release that information but say they will keep looking until they have more proof that it has actually imploded? I don’t buy the avoiding a media frenzy argument since there was one anyway.

The power of a billionaire.

His "people" will have been ringing the powerful and influential all over the world moving things along with brown envelopes if required.

They would never, never have scrambled half the planet's underwater rescue fleet for five poor people - there, I said it.

Sassafras

I've got no time for people who not only endanger themselves voluntarily but also put the lives of all the rescue teams at risk.

JezWynd

LPManic said:

Maybe I am speaking out of turn, but certain news outlets leading with the headline that they were "true explorers" makes my blood boil in the context of the news the last few weeks. I am sick of the media, especially the left leaning papers that I read. 

The BBC coverage was particularly nauseous. They had constant live coverage with a presenter who was reduced to hunting for ways to regurgitate the same few known facts and leaning heavily on guests to state the bleeding obvious. Had no-one ever told them that if you don’t have anything to say, it’s best to STFU?

m_c

darthed1981 said:

Gilly said:

axisus said:

Seems like all those professionals involved in the 'search' were maybe either off the mark or playing games?

I don’t know about playing games but they were clearly withholding information. 

The whole thing about the noises they heard which turned out to be other boats. They release that information to the press but they don’t say anything about the navy picking up a noise soon after communication was lost with the sub that is consistent with an implosion?

Why not release that information but say they will keep looking until they have more proof that it has actually imploded? I don’t buy the avoiding a media frenzy argument since there was one anyway.

The power of a billionaire.

His "people" will have been ringing the powerful and influential all over the world moving things along with brown envelopes if required.

They would never, never have scrambled half the planet's underwater rescue fleet for five poor people - there, I said it.

I think you'd find half the planets underwater rescue fleet would be scrambled regardless of who it was. Those involved in those organisations wouldn't voluntarily just stand doing nothing just because the victims were poor.

darthed1981

m_c said:

darthed1981 said:

Gilly said:

axisus said:

Seems like all those professionals involved in the 'search' were maybe either off the mark or playing games?

I don’t know about playing games but they were clearly withholding information. 

The whole thing about the noises they heard which turned out to be other boats. They release that information to the press but they don’t say anything about the navy picking up a noise soon after communication was lost with the sub that is consistent with an implosion?

Why not release that information but say they will keep looking until they have more proof that it has actually imploded? I don’t buy the avoiding a media frenzy argument since there was one anyway.

The power of a billionaire.

His "people" will have been ringing the powerful and influential all over the world moving things along with brown envelopes if required.

They would never, never have scrambled half the planet's underwater rescue fleet for five poor people - there, I said it.

I think you'd find half the planets underwater rescue fleet would be scrambled regardless of who it was. Those involved in those organisations wouldn't voluntarily just stand doing nothing just because the victims were poor.

Maybe, but the phone calls probably help don't they?

Besides, you are taking it slightly out of context, which was partly in response to a query about why it was reported so much that they heard a bit of banging, but they didn't report the pop sound...

It's all speculation, as ultimately you won't find many poor people paying 250k to take a badly-built submersible down to a big grave for a look-see.

LastMantra

WezV said:

octatonic said:

Devil#20 said:

JezWynd said:

Now that a detailed 3D map has been created there's no reason to visit again save perhaps for occasional updates on how the structure is degrading. Tourism to the site is in bad taste even if they dress the visitors up as 'mission specialists'. Perhaps it's time to leave Titanic to rest in peace. 

I feel the same about Auschwitz and cannot understand why that is run as a tourist attraction. I was once asked to go and refused. Do they charge to visit the camp. If they don't it's a place of pilgrimage and reflection. If they do then it's a tourist attraction. 

LOL.
It isn't like it is a destination for a stag do.

As others have mentioned- it costs money to run.

My visit was part of a stag do 

We went to a shooting range the day before.

Neither of these activities particularly appealed to me, but I  struggled with the contrast between day 1 and 2.  Guys cumming in their pants about the size of semi automatic weapons one day, then the harsh reality of Auschwitz the next

Sack your best man! 

darthed1981

LastMantra said:

WezV said:

octatonic said:

Devil#20 said:

JezWynd said:

Now that a detailed 3D map has been created there's no reason to visit again save perhaps for occasional updates on how the structure is degrading. Tourism to the site is in bad taste even if they dress the visitors up as 'mission specialists'. Perhaps it's time to leave Titanic to rest in peace. 

I feel the same about Auschwitz and cannot understand why that is run as a tourist attraction. I was once asked to go and refused. Do they charge to visit the camp. If they don't it's a place of pilgrimage and reflection. If they do then it's a tourist attraction. 

LOL.
It isn't like it is a destination for a stag do.

As others have mentioned- it costs money to run.

My visit was part of a stag do 

We went to a shooting range the day before.

Neither of these activities particularly appealed to me, but I  struggled with the contrast between day 1 and 2.  Guys cumming in their pants about the size of semi automatic weapons one day, then the harsh reality of Auschwitz the next

Sack your best man! 

It is a bit odd...

"OK, we are doing a drinking game... whenever you see anything heart-wrenching that makes you lose your faith in humanity and chills you to your soul... you do a shot..."

LastMantra

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to see the titanic per se (apart from the dangers of getting there). It's not that grim. If it was then surely Auschwitz is a million times worse. Burial sites and places of death are quite commonly visited by people. 

Reverend

Apparently, the 19-year-old did not want to go. Was terrified but his dad forced him. 

WezV

darthed1981 said:

LastMantra said:

WezV said:

octatonic said:

Devil#20 said:

JezWynd said:

Now that a detailed 3D map has been created there's no reason to visit again save perhaps for occasional updates on how the structure is degrading. Tourism to the site is in bad taste even if they dress the visitors up as 'mission specialists'. Perhaps it's time to leave Titanic to rest in peace. 

I feel the same about Auschwitz and cannot understand why that is run as a tourist attraction. I was once asked to go and refused. Do they charge to visit the camp. If they don't it's a place of pilgrimage and reflection. If they do then it's a tourist attraction. 

LOL.
It isn't like it is a destination for a stag do.

As others have mentioned- it costs money to run.

My visit was part of a stag do 

We went to a shooting range the day before.

Neither of these activities particularly appealed to me, but I  struggled with the contrast between day 1 and 2.  Guys cumming in their pants about the size of semi automatic weapons one day, then the harsh reality of Auschwitz the next

Sack your best man! 

It is a bit odd...

"OK, we are doing a drinking game... whenever you see anything heart-wrenching that makes you lose your faith in humanity and chills you to your soul... you do a shot..."

it wasn't my stag, thank god for that.

But yes, it was very odd.   Everyone was very respectful whilst we were there and subdued for a while after.... but then back on the drinking a few hours later.

Timcito

LastMantra said:

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to see the titanic per se (apart from the dangers of getting there). It's not that grim. If it was then surely Auschwitz is a million times worse. Burial sites and places of death are quite commonly visited by people. 

Quite so, and movies are probably the most popular medium for visiting such 'burial sites,' figuratively speaking. A lot of movies involve gawking at the violence, injustice, and disaster of human life in both the past and the present. We are fascinated by the death and suffering of our kind and endlessly recreate their circumstances for entertainment and wonder: films of past wars, the Wild West, Jack the Ripper, gangsters, the Romans, you name it. 

Even though visiting sites of death like that of the Titanic may be a little ghoulish, I don't see that's it's qualitatively different from what countless people do when they settle down to watch a good movie.

elstoof

darthed1981 said:

Gilly said:

axisus said:

Seems like all those professionals involved in the 'search' were maybe either off the mark or playing games?

I don’t know about playing games but they were clearly withholding information. 

The whole thing about the noises they heard which turned out to be other boats. They release that information to the press but they don’t say anything about the navy picking up a noise soon after communication was lost with the sub that is consistent with an implosion?

Why not release that information but say they will keep looking until they have more proof that it has actually imploded? I don’t buy the avoiding a media frenzy argument since there was one anyway.

The power of a billionaire.

His "people" will have been ringing the powerful and influential all over the world moving things along with brown envelopes if required.

They would never, never have scrambled half the planet's underwater rescue fleet for five poor people - there, I said it.

British, French and US rescue teams were deployed because there were British, French and US citizens on board

LionAquaLooper

Reverend said:

Apparently, the 19-year-old did not want to go. Was terrified but his dad forced him. 

Yep, it's the kid who I feel sorry for the most.  

Timcito

Emp_Fab said:

Timcito said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Pretty much, except you wouldn't blow up but rather implode down in those depths. 

How exactly would that happen? Does it mean they were likely crushed by the sub as it caved in?

Yes... in a millisecond.  The implosion would have been incredibly fast - like hitting an empty food can with a sledgehammer.  The water pressure outside the sub would have been phenomenal.  At the depth of the Titanic, it's 5,800 psi.  Given the dimensions of the thing, that works out as roughly 315,000 metric tonnes of pressure outside trying to crush it.  Once the hull gave way the slightest bit, it would have collapsed completely and turned everyone inside into pulp instantaneously.  They would have had no idea at all.  

Wow.

menamestom

darthed1981 said:

rze99 said:

It’s a tragedy and I feel for the families. RIP. 

There are other tragedies. 

I’m afraid I can’t help but compare and contrast recovery efforts here with what appears to be the deliberate lack of one for the 500 odd Greek island migrants.  RIP. 

As was commented earlier on in the thread, it has rather pushed that out of the news hasn't it?

There are times when I get where conspiracy nuts are coming from.

Even if you ignore the old joke about the "deaths ratio" (one white Brit = 500 Indians) which always rang shockingly true, the overwhelming focus on five rich white people, including deploying everything that floats to look for them, compared to the possible murder (and leaving people to drown when you could rescue them is murder) of 500 innocents, is just, odd.

I'm still amazed ANY sailor, let alone a Naval Officer  would ignore the basic laws of the sea and let people drown though, even enemies in war are rescued.  They can't be ordered to let them drown either, as that would be an illegal order, you don't have to obey them.

I don’t think it’s as simple as the media are just more interested in white people and billionaires.
The Chilean miners, the Thai schoolboys in the cave, Russian Submarine, the earthquake rescue team in Syrian non were rich or western, but all got massive news coverage.

The media love a schrodinger's cat kind of rescue mission more than anything, are they alive, aren't they, it’s a race against time.  They can really milk something like for as long as it lasts.  

darthed1981

menamestom said:

darthed1981 said:

rze99 said:

It’s a tragedy and I feel for the families. RIP. 

There are other tragedies. 

I’m afraid I can’t help but compare and contrast recovery efforts here with what appears to be the deliberate lack of one for the 500 odd Greek island migrants.  RIP. 

As was commented earlier on in the thread, it has rather pushed that out of the news hasn't it?

There are times when I get where conspiracy nuts are coming from.

Even if you ignore the old joke about the "deaths ratio" (one white Brit = 500 Indians) which always rang shockingly true, the overwhelming focus on five rich white people, including deploying everything that floats to look for them, compared to the possible murder (and leaving people to drown when you could rescue them is murder) of 500 innocents, is just, odd.

I'm still amazed ANY sailor, let alone a Naval Officer  would ignore the basic laws of the sea and let people drown though, even enemies in war are rescued.  They can't be ordered to let them drown either, as that would be an illegal order, you don't have to obey them.

I don’t think it’s as simple as the media are just more interested in white people and billionaires.
The Chilean miners, the Thai schoolboys in the cave, Russian Submarine, the earthquake rescue team in Syrian non were rich or western, but all got massive news coverage.

The media love a schrodinger's cat kind of rescue mission more than anything, are they alive, aren't they, it’s a race against time.  They can really milk something like for as long as it lasts.  

True, though that isn't much better.

The chain of discussion, which some of the more "drive-by" posts are missing, I dismissed myself up-thread and have now changed my mind.

There does seem, cynically, to be a "steer" away from the migrant stories particularly.  People are dying by the thousands trying to get to Europe and the response from Europe is to desperately try to stop them coming here and that whole disaster rarely makes the news, but it seems dozens die each day.

AK99

menamestom said:

The media love a schrodinger's cat kind of rescue mission more than anything, are they alive, aren't they, it’s a race against time.  They can really milk something like for as long as it lasts.  

^ Thanks dude. Affer reading that and watching a rerun of Meet The Fokkers last night -  now left with the image of somebody trying to milk Schrodinger's cat while the poor thing's stuck inside its damn box permanently ingrained in my head

JezWynd

Timcito said:

Even though visiting sites of death like that of the Titanic may be a little ghoulish, I don't see that's it's qualitatively different from what countless people do when they settle down to watch a good movie.

You don't take your life in your hands when you sit on the couch to watch a movie. Nor do you need to have the military and rescue services come and save you from your own poor choices. Cameron made a good point about his expeditions to these places - they have other craft on hand which can get them out of a jam; their backup is built into the expedition. Oceangate made no contingencies for anything going wrong and considering the admission prices was 250k usd that was pretty poor customer care.

menamestom

darthed1981 said:

menamestom said:

darthed1981 said:

rze99 said:

It’s a tragedy and I feel for the families. RIP. 

There are other tragedies. 

I’m afraid I can’t help but compare and contrast recovery efforts here with what appears to be the deliberate lack of one for the 500 odd Greek island migrants.  RIP. 

As was commented earlier on in the thread, it has rather pushed that out of the news hasn't it?

There are times when I get where conspiracy nuts are coming from.

Even if you ignore the old joke about the "deaths ratio" (one white Brit = 500 Indians) which always rang shockingly true, the overwhelming focus on five rich white people, including deploying everything that floats to look for them, compared to the possible murder (and leaving people to drown when you could rescue them is murder) of 500 innocents, is just, odd.

I'm still amazed ANY sailor, let alone a Naval Officer  would ignore the basic laws of the sea and let people drown though, even enemies in war are rescued.  They can't be ordered to let them drown either, as that would be an illegal order, you don't have to obey them.

I don’t think it’s as simple as the media are just more interested in white people and billionaires.
The Chilean miners, the Thai schoolboys in the cave, Russian Submarine, the earthquake rescue team in Syrian non were rich or western, but all got massive news coverage.

The media love a schrodinger's cat kind of rescue mission more than anything, are they alive, aren't they, it’s a race against time.  They can really milk something like for as long as it lasts.  

True, though that isn't much better.

The chain of discussion, which some of the more "drive-by" posts are missing, I dismissed myself up-thread and have now changed my mind.

There does seem, cynically, to be a "steer" away from the migrant stories particularly.  People are dying by the thousands trying to get to Europe and the response from Europe is to desperately try to stop them coming here and that whole disaster rarely makes the news, but it seems dozens die each day.

Oh it's definitely no better.  For the media it's probably as shallow as it's not new news to them, it happens all the time.

When the earquakes hit Syria, the UK sent a large rescue team, BBC and ITV news were camped next do buildings reduced to rubble, waiting for news of survivors.  Every day reporting, hoping they could see people being pulled out alive.

The irony is if the same Syrians were on a boat in the medditerainian, they wouldn't really be interested of their fate.  

I think two things are true here, the media love a protracted rescue story, whoever is being rescued.  The media doesn't care about migrants, unlessd they happened make it to a hotel, near a wealthy English town.

victorludorum

Conspiracy theorists linking the delay with the timing of the Hunter Biden story, i.e. push the Biden story down the news agenda by keeping the Titan story/hope alive.