Best laugh I've had in years, Murphy lab refinish

fretfinder

I wonder if the OP has used the gaffa tape method to check the quality of the nitro finishes on any other guitars he’s had through his workshop, ones that are not in for refinishing for example. 

I don’t think Gibson are the only manufacturers to have made a point about ‘thin skin’ nitro finishes and gaffa tape is very strong stuff and not really a recommended part of guitar finish maintenance as far as I’m aware! No doubt it’s a good way of accelerating the stripping process on a guitar finish that’s already flaking and is in for a refinish though.

I’m not defending Gibson and agree that the quality of the finish on that particular guitar was not acceptable. I’m surprised to hear that Gibson “apparently” wouldn’t take it back and fix it, although as that was several owners ago I guess we’ll never know the real truth on that point.

It’s another opportunity to give Gibson a good public bashing of course, which some people just can’t resist. It’s perhaps surprising though coming from someone who I believe is not averse to building Gibson-branded replicas/fakes if the money is right.

I also agree with others who’ve suggested it’s in rather poor taste for one guitar building business to bash another one - it’s not a good look. By all means show the quality of your own refinishing but what do you gain by ridiculing the original finish and publicly laughing about it? Nothing in my opinion, quite the reverse in fact.

Danielsguitars

Right let's get this straight as clearly people think I'm making fun of my customer which I am not.

This guitar was second hand to him and the reason why it was sold is because of this finish problem, until he didn't like it anymore.

Gibson would not take this back apparently, not my words my customers, this is my biggest gripe with Gibson not dealing with this problem.

Think I'm just about done here so move on.

NCo

fretfinder said:

I wonder if the OP has used the gaffa tape method to check the quality of the nitro finishes on any other guitars he’s had through his workshop, ones that are not in for refinishing for example. 

I don’t think Gibson are the only manufacturers to have made a point about ‘thin skin’ nitro finishes and gaffa tape is very strong stuff and not really a recommended part of guitar finish maintenance as far as I’m aware! No doubt it’s a good way of accelerating the stripping process on a guitar finish that’s already flaking and is in for a refinish though.

I’m not defending Gibson and agree that the quality of the finish on that particular guitar was not acceptable. I’m surprised to hear that Gibson “apparently” wouldn’t take it back and fix it, although as that was several owners ago I guess we’ll never know the real truth on that point.

It’s another opportunity to give Gibson a good public bashing of course, which some people just can’t resist. It’s perhaps surprising though coming from someone who I believe is not averse to building Gibson-branded replicas/fakes if the money is right.

I also agree with others who’ve suggested it’s in rather poor taste for one guitar building business to bash another one - it’s not a good look. By all means show the quality of your own refinishing but what do you gain by ridiculing the original finish and publicly laughing about it? Nothing in my opinion, quite the reverse in fact.

Great question.

In a thread I made about removing nitro finishing, @p90fool showed that he used tape to strp his Gibson traditional nitro off. I wonder if Fenders suffer the same fate.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/261324/removing-nitro-finish-from-back-and-sides-of-a-lp-studio#latest

chris78

Danielsguitars said:

Right let's get this straight as clearly people think I'm making fun of my customer which I am not.

This guitar was second hand to him and the reason why it was sold is because of this finish problem, until he didn't like it anymore.

Gibson would not take this back apparently, not my words my customers, this is my biggest gripe with Gibson not dealing with this problem.

Think I'm just about done here so move on.

Why would Gibson take a used guitar back?
The whole point of buying new is to get warranty. As I pointed out with my experience, they were superb at taking back my new guitar that I got from Peach.
I think that shows there’s more than meets the eye with the original bashing.

Roundwound

There’s no chance in hell that I’d apply Gaffa tape to any of my nitro finished guitars. If I did and the finish peeled off with the tape, I can’t imagine it would be a huge shock.

NCo

Roundwound said:

There’s no chance in hell that I’d apply Gaffa tape to any of my nitro finished guitars. If I did and the finish peeled off with the tape, I can’t imagine it would be a huge shock.

Especially aged/relic'd guitars. I suspect that the process used for the crazing, whether it's heat and compression or simply freezing the body, also reduces the strength of the lacquer, but I may be misguided.

Seziertisch

I own one vintage Gibson, a B9 lap steel from the early 50s. 

It’s in reasonable condition for its age, lots of checking and natural relicing. However, there are areas where I could remove the finish with my fingernail, and I’m pretty sure gaffer tape would do a similar thing to it as it did to the Murphy Lab LP.

BobHillman

NCo said:

 I suspect that the process used for the crazing, whether it's heat and compression or simply freezing the body, also reduces the strength of the lacquer, but I may be misguided.

One of the reasons I dislike the idea of "reliced" guitars is that there is no way to tell how these treatments will affect the guitar in other ways.

elstoof

Danielsguitars said:

Right let's get this straight as clearly people think I'm making fun of my customer which I am not.

This guitar was second hand to him and the reason why it was sold is because of this finish problem, until he didn't like it anymore.

Gibson would not take this back apparently, not my words my customers, this is my biggest gripe with Gibson not dealing with this problem.

Think I'm just about done here so move on.

Would you take on a free warranty refinish for a bloke you’d never met who bought one of your guitars second hand?

dindude

That’s a pretty bad Gibson for sure. Also a pretty bad attitude from a small builder. Would put me off both to be honest. Plenty more to buy. 

KrisGee

Can you reapply the finish off the gaffa tape to another guitar....?

I'm thinking recycling. 

SlopeSoarer

... none of this would of happened if he'd just used frog tape!

richardhomer

dindude said:

That’s a pretty bad Gibson for sure. Also a pretty bad attitude from a small builder. Would put me off both to be honest. Plenty more to buy. 

OP seems to have had second thoughts and done a little bit of deleting…

digitalscream

ADMIN: Enough with the handbags and piling on, everyone. Please.

notsopro

comment removed, I'm an adult 

Deadman

Boring post coming up.

I’ve been spraying nitro and in particular sander sealer, shellac and all wood finishes in various forms since I was 17, so for 36 years. I run areas for our business now and don’t get hands on but did a full on 30 of those years hands on. I get to see work I did 20 years ago (sometimes even older) coming back to me in the form of things like military honours boards and an array of furniture, let alone the odd guitar from private work. I’m talking big volumes, too. So I have a lot of experience not only on the job but more in investigating quality issues nowadays.

Having seen the original post, it’s a classic of mine (from back in the day) when I’ve experimented mixing stains with sander sealer to get colour build up quickly, generally I’ve rushed a job, put too much on in one go, not keyed between coats etc etc. It creates an imbalance in the manufacturer’s intended use, almost immediate embrittlement and poor adhesion. That’s exactly what we were seeing. I’ve not researched Gibson’s statement about a “bad batch of filler” or whatever has been said so can’t give my opinion on that bit.
Having said that, if you use a high tack tape on anything but a sound single pack finish (like for example, any relic that’s showing signs of cracking as opposed to nice even rubbing wear) it’s coming off. I’m actually doing a ‘cross hatch’ adhesion quality check (cutting into the finish in a crisscross pattern) in the morning and the book states to use high tack tape. If more than 5% comes off on the tape, it’s a fail. 

So yes, a major f up on Gibson’s part but in my view an experiment that unfortunately went wrong.

p90fool

Can someone tell me what's going on?

Kittyfrisk

p90fool said:

Can someone tell me what's going on?

I could tell you, but someone would want to kill me...

Wazmeister

If you dish it out, you’ve got to be able to take it…

fretfinder

p90fool said:

Can someone tell me what's going on?

If you didn’t see the OP’s original post, which he’s now deleted, you may well wonder what is going on.

Perhaps the modmins will reinstate that original post, for balance and for this thread to make at least some sense.