Best laugh I've had in years, Murphy lab refinish

fendergibson

p90fool said:

Can someone tell me what's going on?

Little fish bites big fish, bottom feeders devour both

MikeP

No opinion on Murphy lab but I am very fortunate to own a 1938 gibson acoustic with plenty of lacquer checking and worn finish on the back of the neck. I feel reasonably sure that gaffa tape would remove it in a similar fashion...

Kurtis

This thread really lives up to it's title!

  

digitalscream

fretfinder said:

p90fool said:

Can someone tell me what's going on?

If you didn’t see the OP’s original post, which he’s now deleted, you may well wonder what is going on.

Perhaps the modmins will reinstate that original post, for balance and for this thread to make at least some sense.

I'd love to, but Vanilla ate it.

tone1

Well, that’s 5 minutes of my life I’ll never get back….4 pages in and still none the wiser….

elstoof

Have a look on the OP Instagram page

CHRISB50

p90fool said:

Can someone tell me what's going on?

OP is doing a refinish on a 2nd hand Murphy Lab. Gibson Les Paul, on behalf of a customer.

His customer brought the guitar in, as the finish is peeling off. Gibson said they wouldn't touch it (I assume as it's 2nd hand - the customer isn't the original owner).

OP said this shouldn't happen to a finish. Quite right.

OP was removing the finish using gaffer tape. Had a laugh about it (literally). Posted it on Instagram.

Some people didn't like this and said so.

The OP didn't agree, and said so.

A bit of a tiff ensued. 

tone1

What’s an ‘Instagram’ ?…

CHRISB50

tone1 said:

What’s an ‘Instagram’ ?…

Facebook. For younger people.

fretfinder

elstoof said:

Have a look on the OP Instagram page

stickyfiddle

Genuine question - wouldn’t the same thing happen if you took a roll of gaffer to a vintage Gibson? 

p90fool

Thanks @CHRISB50 ;

stickyfiddle said: Genuine question - wouldn’t the same thing happen if you took a roll of gaffer to a vintage Gibson?  I would think so, genuinely checked nitro usually lifts at the edges of each crack, and given the success with which I stripped a modern non-relic guitar with gaffa tape I wouldn't dare stick anything to a vintage Gibson. 

Meanwhile, my Fullerton-built Fender neck lacquer continues to fall off in sheets unassisted, but I guess that doesn't conform to the OP's peculiar anti-Gibson obsession. 

GoldenEraGuitars

stickyfiddle said:

Genuine question - wouldn’t the same thing happen if you took a roll of gaffer to a vintage Gibson? 

Any single pack lacquer finish on wood could suffer the same fate over a period of time. And indeed any heavily crazed finish (when the wood expands and contracts over weeks/months/years) would be susceptible to this form of delaminating effect. 

Anyone who likes a good aged finish with lots of checking must realise that any bump, knock (hell, even taking a screw out) can result in paint falling off too. This is why the guitar world, in general, moved onto harder wearing and less brittle forms and methods of painting. 

Darren has openly said though, it’s the fact that Gibson didn’t take it back at the time to rectify it. I’m not privileged to know who owned/owns the guitar and what the conversation was with the retailer or Gibson at the time the complaint was raised but I’m pretty sure the current owner said he was fed up of the finish falling off the back of the neck.

It’s a tight rope, this whole ageing thing. Old finishes are falling off guitars… that’s just how the paint behaves over decades of moisture/humidity/temperature fluctuation. I think in this particular case there are points for both sides. 

lustycourtier

No one comes out of this looking good. Such a shame. 

WezV

I totally get the frustration, not only with Gibson, but with many of the guitar buying public who will insist "only a Gibson is good enough", even in the situations where it clearly isn't.

Gibson could have done better on the Customer service side here, but they had no obligation to.


I made this joke in the other Murphy labs thread, but it seems appropriate here

WezV said:

You gotta love Gibson supporting the little guys.

It's always been the factory set ups keeping techs in business, the headstock breaks helping the repair men and builders. Now they are helping all the refinishers make a bit of extra money too   

stickyfiddle

GoldenEraGuitars said:

stickyfiddle said:

Genuine question - wouldn’t the same thing happen if you took a roll of gaffer to a vintage Gibson? 

Any single pack lacquer finish on wood could suffer the same fate over a period of time. And indeed any heavily crazed finish (when the wood expands and contracts over weeks/months/years) would be susceptible to this form of delaminating effect. 

Anyone who likes a good aged finish with lots of checking must realise that any bump, knock (hell, even taking a screw out) can result in paint falling off too. This is why the guitar world, in general, moved onto harder wearing and less brittle forms and methods of painting. 

Darren has openly said though, it’s the fact that Gibson didn’t take it back at the time to rectify it. I’m not privileged to know who owned/owns the guitar and what the conversation was with the retailer or Gibson at the time the complaint was raised but I’m pretty sure the current owner said he was fed up of the finish falling off the back of the neck.

It’s a tight rope, this whole ageing thing. Old finishes are falling off guitars… that’s just how the paint behaves over decades of moisture/humidity/temperature fluctuation. I think in this particular case there are points for both sides. 

I totally get that, but Gibson has been very clear in the marketing that the ML finishes are much more like the old ones from a chemical perspective. Where they seem to have missed the mark is that it's therefore inevitable that they will react to temperature changes similar to how the originals did, and check very easily, etc etc. Clearly a lot of people haven't understood this for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean the finish is bad as such. 

I'm not blindly defending Gibson here but any stretch - I just tried a shitload of VOS and ML guitars over the last week and generally didn't like the Murphies so much, and part of that is how the neck finishes feel in the hand. But like all things relic, it's ultimately most just a finish option... 

GoldenEraGuitars

@stickyfiddle what I’ve noticed is a massive difference between Gibsons standard USA finished guitars and the Murphy Lab ones. After seeing the guitar in question here with the paint off there is a strange grey coating over the wood which confirms my thoughts (bare with me) -

Standard USA Gibsons have a heavily plasticised/vinyl lacquer on them. It comes off like plastic/car wrap material. I don’t think ML uses a totally different end product, I believe the sealer or filler is intended to promote lack of adhesion hence the checking and easily chipped finished. So it’s almost two extremes at opposite ends of the spectrum for the sake of one step during the preparation process. And it’s also possible that the final ageing done to these guitars puts the finish beyond the lacquer manufacturers recommended use. 

Again, as mentioned before I have no dog in this fight. I have refinished many Gibsons and Fenders, it makes no nevermind to me what these companies use. And if you want to spend £5,6,7,8k + on a Gibson then ultimately as long as you’re happy who cares, right? 

As a friend and fan of Darren’s work I’m far more interested in seeing the process of refinishing this guitar and how it will look in a few months. 

stickyfiddle

@GoldenEraGuitars That seems a reasonable set of comments. 

I’m not arguing either, and I’m not particularly interested in MLs above the regular VOS stuff, which I do enjoy in general. 

Just seems a little harsh for the OP to have a pop at Gibson specifically when all these finishes do is act similar to old guitars, for better or worse. 

chris78

GoldenEraGuitars said:

stickyfiddle said:

Genuine question - wouldn’t the same thing happen if you took a roll of gaffer to a vintage Gibson? 

Any single pack lacquer finish on wood could suffer the same fate over a period of time. And indeed any heavily crazed finish (when the wood expands and contracts over weeks/months/years) would be susceptible to this form of delaminating effect. 

Anyone who likes a good aged finish with lots of checking must realise that any bump, knock (hell, even taking a screw out) can result in paint falling off too. This is why the guitar world, in general, moved onto harder wearing and less brittle forms and methods of painting. 

Darren has openly said though, it’s the fact that Gibson didn’t take it back at the time to rectify it. I’m not privileged to know who owned/owns the guitar and what the conversation was with the retailer or Gibson at the time the complaint was raised but I’m pretty sure the current owner said he was fed up of the finish falling off the back of the neck.

It’s a tight rope, this whole ageing thing. Old finishes are falling off guitars… that’s just how the paint behaves over decades of moisture/humidity/temperature fluctuation. I think in this particular case there are points for both sides. 

I’d still really like the context around this. We know the guitar was secondhand, which means Gibson are under zero obligation because there is zero warranty.
However, Gibson were also selling at significant discount a number of guitars both directly on reverb and also through absolute music where there were finish issues. This was advertised as such and they were sold at significant discount (we’re talking thousands).
It’s entirely possible that this is one of those guitars that a guy bought to save a few quid and then has taken to Darren to be refinished as it’s annoyed him a few months into ownership. 

Unfortunately, in my view, the thread was an attempt to pile on about Gibson QC issues, for which they’ve not been blameless in the past to put it mildly, and to try and score points at Gibsons expense whilst being deliberately vague about the context.

GoldenEraGuitars

@chris78 im not sure about any of this, you’d really need to ask Darren.